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Utkal

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BEH: A piece of trash
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August 18th, 2008

Just saw BEH last night and I have never been more disappointed in my life. Normally I would have taken a snooze ( I never walk out. Like to check any film till the end.) but the loud and uninspiring music ( The irritating high-pitched Khuda Jaane..screaming out without any context or relevance.) I am surprised some critics have praised Aditya Chopra’s writing. taking first class material like ‘ Broken Flowers”,
‘Autograph’ and ‘ Devil Wears Prada’ and botching it all up, the guy has lost just. Totally. The problem with guys like Aditya Chopra and Karan Johar and gang is that they live cocooned lives wrapped up in films. so their writing comes from other films and not life. That leads to plastic writing. Here it is made worse by constant throw back to films like DDLJ, Yes Boss and what have you. Come on Aditya, grow up. Life is not all films. The script and the psychological motivations shown or the character graphs are all laughable. Worst of all is Deepika Padukone’s character. An Indian taxi driver in Australia? with that kind of get up. You want us to believe that she is fir real? When actresses like Hemamalini played taxi drivers in films like Jaaneaman, they did it in a campy style, so you did not take it seriously. Here they try to look Hollywood-smart, and without an iota of authenticity. Unlike in DDLJ, you don’t believe the characters of Ranbir and Deepika and you don’t care for them. So the whole story falls flat. Only the portions with Bipash and Bipasha’s own performance have some charm, believability and lot of chutzpoah. Ranbir surprisingly is vey average, not showing any real sparks of talent. The song picturization is pathetic. you have to see the two Punjabi songs in the second half to realise how ridiculous, uninspired and maddening they are. Even the much-flaunted ‘ Khuda jaane’ is all camera angles, scenic locales and no soul whatsoever. And please Mr. Chopra we are no longer impressed by firangis hanging around , mouthing Bollywood songs in the chorus. That kind of self-congratulatory scenes fools no one. Neither are we impressed with shots of Switzerland, Australia or what have you. The India audience has grown up since your DDLJ. They can enjoy stories set in Bandra, Delhi, or even Bihar and Up, now that they have got a taste of RDB. Lage Raho Munna Bhai, Omkar, Taare Zameen Par, Chka De, Jab We Met, and Jaane Tu. We want real stories with real people. Or genuine camp like OSO ( 1st half) , or Singh is Kinng ( bits and pieces) . Not this kind of lazy, talentless mish-mash like Tashan or BEH. Grow up or get out, Mr Chopra. Bollywood has seen a talent explosion while you were dreaming your mega empire, preening your carefully cultivated reclusive persona. Mohabbatein revealed enough of your mediocrity, this one confirms it and I can see Rab De Ban Di Jodi, hitting the last nail on you largely undeserved reputation.

There Are 80 Responses So Far. »

  1. Comment by Dionysiac on 19 August 2008:

    Ooch!!

  2. Comment by sandy on 19 August 2008:

    Couldn’t disagree more with this review.

  3. Comment by sandy on 19 August 2008:

    Most would easily call this Yash Raj’s best work in recent times.

  4. Comment by rockstar on 19 August 2008:

    somewhat inspired from dev sahab’s teen deviyaan but again the treatment left lot to be desired they have tried to make the product as a packaged deal with all the exotic location but again they hardly worked on script most of the times u feel that its a fantasy which is going on.

    RANBIR is shown to be a modern boy of 21st century but even in the second half it seems entirely odd to see a modern youth dooing prayaschit and all

  5. Comment by utkal on 19 August 2008:

    The single screen theater I went to in Bangalore was three-fourth empty. and everyone was yawning, glad when the film was over. One of the best from YRF? Have you seen that song Ranbir sings during Minissha Lamaba’s sister’s wedding or the one on the streets of Italy or wherever it is. Even the songs picturized by Dharmesh Darshan or Indra Kumar have more class. I wont comment on films ever again if this film makes more that twice its first week collection.

  6. Comment by rockstar on 19 August 2008:

    ranbir is quite good here but u can not say the same about the movie .Second hald is a a big let down and looks regressive most of the time at times one feel they are just stretching the movie

  7. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    Seems to be more of a review on Aditya Chopra than the film! I know we are all entitled to our tastes, but for me this was more believable than the fake wannabe Indian teenage life shown in JTYJN. I agree with sandy that this was one of the better efforts from Yash Raj films in recent times.

    In Teen Devian, Dev Saab was entangled with three women simultaneously. So this really has no parallels to that film. I would hope that 21st century boys are just as prone to prayaschit as their earlier counterparts. In fact Jim Jarmusch’s protagonist sets off on a similar journey in modern times when some would say - what, an American doing prayaschit?

  8. Comment by sandy on 19 August 2008:

    rockstar: I don’t deny that the film hits some wrong notes

    1. Ranbir’s chracter hardly evolves between the age of 18 to 30
    2. Again, it’s never clear why Deepika doesn’t want to marry Ranbir in the first place
    3. Yes, the prayaschit bit was tricky, considering we make a lot of mistakes in our lives but not all of us think it essential enough to revisit it. However, in this case, I think Ranbir’s character somwhere believes he would never find true love or could never be happy unless he set some things right. That to me is poignant enough. However, I do feel that the MInissha episode in the first half is comparitively a non-serious one - the fact that it affects Minissha a lot is a different matter. He’s guilty in his affair with Bips though…

  9. Comment by rockstar on 19 August 2008:

    “one on the streets of Italy or wherever it is”

    lol the girl was taking fake revenge and u have the song going on this is what u called melodrama at its best

  10. Comment by sandy on 19 August 2008:

    Neelu: Agree with you. It seems a bit odd that one is such a rabid fan of a Jaane Tu..but detests BAH.

  11. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    Thanks for the review…not sure if I want to catch this one now!

  12. Comment by rockstar on 19 August 2008:

    “I would hope that 21st century boys are just as prone to prayaschit as their earlier counterparts. In fact Jim Jarmusch’s protagonist sets off on a similar journey in modern times when some would say - what, an American doing prayaschit?”

    yup but for that transformation to be shown on reel life should be wonderfully done and i said it is somewhat inspired from teen devian its not an entire rip off

  13. Comment by sandy on 19 August 2008:

    “lol the girl was taking fake revenge and u have the song going on this is what u called melodrama at its best”

    I didn’t see that as a problem. It was a fast-paced number, wans’t it? Not a sad, slow one to call it melodrama.

  14. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    Geez why is everyone so judgemental on tastes??!?!?!?!

    Are you telling me, if one likes BeH they MUST like JTYJN or vice versa? Did you all like KKHH, DTPH, KHNH, MDK with equal esteem?

  15. Comment by utkal on 19 August 2008:

    ‘ melodrama at its best”. Yeah, right. Unfortunately the Indian audience has grown up a lot and wont swallow that kind of inauthentic stuff. The character in Jim Jarmush’s film learns that he has fathered a child from one of the women he has had an affair with. That sets him out on a hunt. And have you seen the detailing of his mental state of the protagonist in the beginning of the film? The total ennui, the total loss of will to live. As I have said it’s never the story, but the telling that matters. And it means detailing, capturing the moments, and investing your story with some soul. Everything that Jaane Tu or Jab We met have. And everything that BEH totally lacks

  16. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    You have to suspend disbelief to a certain extent in each film to appreciate it. Then it is really up to personal taste where you were willing to go through the exercise with least reluctance. As a big fan of BAH and not a great admirer of JTYJN I fully realize that there is really not much to choose between them. Improbable stories - check, fake attitudes - check, glamorized locations - check (Mumbai sans a single bus ride, and clubbing and partying all the time is real?), a coming of age film - check. Now let us look at the positives of BAH - for friends we have Hiten Paintal and I’ll take him over those most annoying cats and rats and jeegs and meows. For comedy we have Naseer talking out of a portrait - brilliant but that is countered by the most pseudo-intellectual people. BAH has deft and entertaining dialog that kept me in splits, but it is countered by Minissha’s frigidity and Deepika’s inexplicable denials. But Minissha is more real as a kook (she did she DDLJ 17 times and expects to meet a Raj on a train!), than Genelia is as an ingenue who becomes appealing in a dress.

    I could go on and on, but the fact is that these are quite similar films, and BAH was just more entertaining for me. As far as acting goes, I’ll take Ranbir over Imran ANYDAY.

  17. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    If this is very much like YR, then I will probably not like it. The only YR love stories I liked this decade were Hum Tum and BnB (more comedy I guess). Salaam Nameste was ok.

  18. Comment by rockstar on 19 August 2008:

    i don’t know know how the comparison of jtyjn holds here

    jane tu was a teenage story and bachna is the story of a guy in the various ages of his life and here even the transformation of ranbir in various stages of his life has not been handled properly even i say character of saif in hum tum as cassanova and the various stages of his life was shown better there

  19. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    This is about 20 times better than Salaam Namaste which I detested. I think in comedy component it is more like BnB and HT, but frankly I liked it even better than those two. IMO it is worth a watch just to see Ranbir as a completely natural actor.

  20. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    Rockstar, the comparison is valid as both are frothy comedies, and coming of age is when one realizes that one is mature and ready to be responsible.

  21. Comment by utkal on 19 August 2008:

    all films are make-believe. It is a question of what kind of play of imagination you like. I am against the intellectual laziness when we think Ranbir is good just because he is so much in the media. If you look at the character depiction or the expression of key emotion, Imraan has done a much better job. And as about Minissa seeing DDLJ 17 times, that’s a boring and unimaginative way of establishing character. and it becomes crass if it happens to be your own film, and the sequence is filmed with a big hangover from that film. I simply lose interest and want to go to sleep. There is life outside Bollywood and I want to see it in Bollywood films. That’s what films like Chak De, Taare Zameen Par, Jab We Met and Jaane Tu give me. Mind you, they are all mainstream Bollywood films, but a more evolved, sophisticated species of Bolywood, that’s what most urban viewers want today. Jaane tu and BEH are as different as chalk and cheese. Take just one factor of song concepts and picturization and you will se. No ahista Ahisat, no Khuda Jaane in Jaane tu. No firangi locations or firangi hangers on in Jaane tu. I call the Aditya Chpra school of filmmaking the Manoj KUmar school of filmmaking. He told a sincere story in Upkar. After hat he became a parody of himself. He had a few good moments in Roti, Kapda or Shor. But gradually it was getting cornier and cornier. And more insincere. That is the path Aditya Chopra is traversing.

  22. Comment by rks on 19 August 2008:

    Jay:”why is everyone so judgemental on tastes”

    LOL… There won’t be any arguments then? :)

  23. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    In fact I fount JTYJN to be intellectually lazy and constantly referencing other cinematic material - like KKHH and Chalte Chalte (the heaviest borrowing was from this one). Perhaps it is better to borrow from others but not yourself? I do not see a huge difference in the approach. It is also laughable that the people who vilify K Jo and YR most are perfectly happy with the borrowing from these particular films! If Minissha’s character was established by how many times she saw DDLJ (which was the major point of the film - to deconstruct the romantic Raj persona), then Genelia’s character is established by her cat funeral kerfuffle and a most pathetic mockery made out of the song Aditi. I do not see the crassness in referencing one’s own film, if the idea is to mock that film, something that BAH does most effectively. In fact I wanted to see teenage life in Mumbai but there was nothing in JTYJN to convince me that any teenager and recent graduate lived that kind of life in Mumbai. Are we still talking of a country where the competition in studies is ferocious and unemployment is unprecedented? I will take firangi locations if they are part of the film and not a dream sequence - like they were in DCH! But it is hard for me to stomach “real” locations when these are really as foreign as could be. I am sorry you hated the film, and dislike Aditya Chopra even more. But to me this is a huge step up from Mohabbatein in scripting and execution; and JTYJN was a huge step down from the man who wrote MHN and Maqbool, and the execution was most childish.

  24. Comment by manoj16_391 on 19 August 2008:

    Neelu,
    agreed jtyjn was a disappointment for me too especially Imran,who constantly was shying away from the camera,he is looking much more confident in kidnap promos.

    utkal,
    “guys like Aditya Chopra and Karan Johar and gang is that they live cocooned lives wrapped up in films. so their writing comes from other films and not life. ”

    excellent line,agreed…..

  25. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    And that is exactly what Abbas was doing when he wrote JTYJN - and he is not even an insider, a recent entrant rather.

  26. Comment by ideaunique on 19 August 2008:

    Utkal,
    Although I haven’t seen the movie - but what you have said about Adi, Karan - I agree with you - these guys should learn something from AAMIR that without serving some illusionist and fake lifestyles in movies - you can still draw the crowds to theaters…on the BO Collections - I think Indian viewers are thronging to see the movie in the absence of other good movies and maybe because of Ranbir…

  27. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    “these guys should learn something from AAMIR that without serving some illusionist and fake lifestyles in movies ”

    I think we will see that in Ghajini. Wait and watch! Then we will all be learning from the best.

  28. Comment by manoj16_391 on 19 August 2008:

    idea,there r many ,not just aamir.

  29. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    I liked JTYJN mainly because its a film that shows relationships as opposed to melodrama of emotions. I would compare the movie to things like JJWS, DDLJ or DCH. Not in theme, but basically all these movies have a strong chord of relationships between key characters in the film. And the characters become believeable (even if some situations are so OTT, thats filmi) and me as the audience starts to feel engrossed with the characters- you actually understand them. The problem with Aditya/K-Jo faced is their first films hit the mark in a big way. DDLJ & KKHH both had this relationship element and believability (not in the sense that this is “real” but its rather plausible or authentic). Both movies had a soul.

    K-Jo has disappointed hugely since. He is such a superficial director! His stories basically sound better on paper then on screen. The script of KANK was an opportunity for a powerful story - a cheating husband and cheating wife, is a very serious type of film but the way it was shot, his style makes it so superficial. I don’t think Aditya suffers from this, I think he is a director who is more rooted and understands smaller things better, whereas K-Jo is more about the lavish enterprise. But they both suffer from enormous expectations and I find them trying to chase the past rather than really trying to attempt something different. 13 years on Aditya is making another love story. 10 years on K-Jo is making another love story. This is all they know IMO.

    On Aditya, IMO YR have only two quality products to their name since DDLJ. BnB & CDI. The latter is shot in the most un-Yashraj way and is the most un-Yashraj film in this period. No exotic locales, no love songs, a film shot technically differently and superbly - in a word there is nothing to suggest Aditya’s influence here at all (!!!). The former is a lifted story, but very much rooted. But for a premier production house, very little truly good stuff comes out…UTV on the other hand have really just trampled all over them in the recent past.

  30. Comment by utkal on 19 August 2008:

    Firstly, Abbas wrote the script from his own college experience and not from other films. That’s why it connects. Nothing wrong with foreign location or love duets, if they are done with some purpose and some passion. In BEH they are such cliches. The same Switzerland which we have seen hundreds of times now. And totally unimaginative songs. and insincere. I am very finicky when it comes to songs in Hindi films. Now take a song like aditi, the words of the song reflect Jay’s felings towards aditi. It talsk of how he cannot bear to see aditi unhappy and things like that. The sonf paapu cant dance has some real wity, contemporary lines like ‘ Hathon mein Rado ghadi, perfume Gucciwala, burt ppau Cant dance saala.’ The phrase Paapu can’t dance saala itself reflects so much attitude. And again the song ‘ Dil, dil ki yehi khat hai , dil chahta hai kya” expresses the predicament of the protagonists. Simiraly, Kahin to. The language, the tunes of the songs are in sync with the situations and the characters. Noe compare this to the songs of BEH. Khuda jaane, tu ban gaya a khuda. What rubbish! Which contemporary dude thinks like that! Also compare the creative element of the Sohail and Arbaz character, or the Naseruddin Shah character, with the randy sidekick, Hiten Paintal. Which is the better writing? Whom does the auidience carte for Imran and Genelai or Ranbir and deepika?

    I disliked the film? That’s an understatement. I was praying when this insincere claptrap would get over!!

  31. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    Too much to respond to but I’ll try.

    1. In fact BAH is all about relationships and not about the melodrama of the relationships. Melodrama was the situation in the airport in JTYJN, the character of Aditi, the way Jay rushes though a conveyor belt etc. etc.

    2. Generally YR have a stamp on their romantic films that has not really worked post DTPH. VZ was awful and Mohabbatein too, as were Fanaa and the Dhoom films. But I see a real mix in their films now that started with BnB in the really earthy locales (although BnB is a hugely flawed film too), and carried on with JBJ, Tashan. Those are the interesting ones for me. LCMD, TRRP, TPTM are the usual YR fare and I doubt we will see more of that. Whatever else Adi may be, he is an astute businessman and can tell which way the market is swinging. Of course we will see attempts to hit it out of the park with the Dhoom type formula (shudders), but the unique stuff and the experiments will keep happening. In fact AN could have been a successful experiment, but the film was hugely let down by a mediocre script from Jaideep Sahni of all people. I think the biased lot can call RNBDJ whatever they want, but knowing YR and their penchant for family fare in their old fashioned romances I am betting that this is no straight romance between a 42 year old man and a 19 year old girl. That would cause a mass exodus from the theaters. We can discuss this more once someone has actually seen the film :-)

    3. As for Karan - I really love KKHH for its sweetness and simplicity. K3G was atrocious. But KANK I find unusually interesting. IMO it had to be melodramatic and larger than life, just like The Dangerous Liaisons played out among the nobility of Paris, and not the proletariat. It is in fashion to hate KANK, but I do not. I hate KHNH much much more. So Karan is on an upswing as far as I am concerned. And MNIK is no romance. LOL at that label!

    4. Abbas may tell us whatever he wants about the sources for his scripts, but only the blind will not detect what celluloid sources he has used! You do not need to do a chapter and verse on the lyrics of JTYJN - I know them, and think this is one of Rahman’s weaker albums. JA was the much better and more soulful one. No song is well pictiurized or situated in JTYJN. BEH duets were actually beautiful - and Ahsitaa Ahistaa the better one of the two. For you, contemporary dudes may sing sorrowfully at dead cats, but I think Khuda Jaane had beautiful sentiments - Khuda jaane ki main fidaa hoon, khuda jane yeh kyun hua hai, and contemporary dude who finally finds love might sing just that. In fact this seems more sincere than Kabhi kabhi woh bichad jaaye to ek sapna lagta hai - what does that even mean? You were upset at the randy dude played by Hiten Paintal? LOL! And we were talking about contemporary dudes just a while back? Come see what your NG buddies express on the SB and you will know what is more real! I cared nothing for Genelia BTW - she was most fake and irritating. Perhaps having attempted to see Mere Baap Pehle Aap might have had something to do with this irritation. But I did get to care for Imraan. However - I cared more for Ranbir.

  32. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    1. I cannot comment on BAH, but JTYJN has its fair share of melodrama, but it does not rely on it for its foundations. The relationships are what makes the movie work, not the melodrama. And even the “melodrama” of the ending, it is all camouflaged by “humour”. Jay falling, singing a song, police making a fool of himself. Its not strictly your sobbing, crying, emotional end.

    2. AN is a film I liked. RNBJ we can judge later - I do think Aditya is smart and not a complete fool. He will comeback for something meaningful, but lets see.

    3. KANK is a half baked movie. It has all the potential to be a truly gripping movie, but it is a case of wrong director - correct cast. It drags so much. He got the characters right, but the setting, landscape, all of it was so superficial. MNIK - I have heard rumours that SRK will play a tough character, but almost certainly for me this will be a love story if Kajol is towed in. Lets see, I don’t see K-Jo doing anything too different. From rumours of a songless film,

    I’ve read him say on his blog “the film at heart is a love story. At the soul of it, it makes a social comment, and at the whole of it, it’s a human triumph tale.” Now call me rather silly, but the film is a love story according to him at this point in time. So LOL at your LOL!

  33. Comment by nithi_s on 19 August 2008:

    I haven’t watched BAH yet. But I agree with utkal. I did not like the foreign locations and plasticity right from the first promos. From watching JTYJN and Saawariya , I think Imran is much more natural than your spontaneous but slightly artificial Ranbir.

    Jayshah, Couldn’t agree more. I saw some parts of ‘The Bridges of Madison County’(the book) in VZ. Or may be its just my imagination. To me VZ did have some soul which is purely poetic and lacking any attachment to reality.

  34. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    V-Z is bit poetic and not superficial. There is some sentiment that comes through probably from Yash Chopra. But it was just a bore of a film - not a bad one, just boring.

  35. Comment by utkal on 19 August 2008:

    1. The airport sequence of JNTYJN is not melodramatic, it is spoofy. As Jaysha says it is the humour that makess one accept it.
    2. Can you tell which celuloid sources Abbas taps for the best parts of the film like the character played by Pratek Babbar, or the family situation of Megha or ‘ You can take a Rathod out of Ranjhore but you cannot take a Ranjhore out of a Rathod’ or the gradual sense of loss that Genelia feels as Jay gets closer to Megha. Or the moments with ” What’s this?’
    3. I have noting against Hiten Paintal’s character. It’s just that I found the comic concept of Sohail-Arbaz and the police station sequence more inventive, almost in the calss of a comic classic invention.
    4.Khuda Jaane by itself maybe a good enough song, but it does not explore the souls of the protagonists of the film. Beautiful locales, fashionable clothes..no soul. Tht is why I hate Dil Se. Beautiful songs that dont belong in the film. And the songs in BAH are not even choireographed half as inventively as Dil Se.
    5. ” kabh kabhi woh bichhad jaye to ek sapna lagta hai.”: Means that: when she is gone away, those moments of togetherness and the blissful feelings feel like a dream.
    6. More importantly, the whole structure of two peole fall in love, break into a duet is a cliche. Thankfully, JNTYJN avoids it. So do most of the movies I admire from recent times: RDB, DCH, Jab We Met.
    7. DDLJ and KKH had both moments of genuine emotions and study of relationship. K3G was atrocious, so was Mohabbatein. When you compare K3G to a classic like Anand you realise how people like KJo will always be B-Grade when compared to real masters. KANK was better than K3G, but was basically botched up. MNIK, is meant to be more topical. But Kjo cant handle it I am sure. Rab ne.. we dont know. But I have bad vibes about it. They are trying too hard to make it ahit. Like KJo did in K3G.
    8. Aditya is not a fool. He has has commissioned interesting projects like Chak De, BnB, Aaja Nachle. My problem is when he tries to write. I mean he takes a script like DEad poets Society and turns it into Mohabbatein. And they call him a good writer!
    9. It’s people like Jaideep Sahni,Anurag Kashyap, Saurabh Shukla, Vishal Bharadwaj,Javed, Yash Chopra who have lived life outside Bollywood that can write intersting scripts. The peoplec grown up in Bandra-Malabar Hill film frtaernity can write about one film from experinece. Then they will strat cannibalizing from other flms , that too not too weel. Thta’s why I dont trust Rab de.

  36. Comment by Julie on 19 August 2008:

    couldn’t disagree with this review more. After a long long time I have seen YR come up with a geuninely good film. utkal if you want to call any movie trash, it has to be SIK by a long long margin. The movie is not worth the nickle spent. But hey, there are people who do think otherwise as this moronic piece of trash has posted extremely good numbers. Thanks to Akshay. Hope he does not continue to stretch his luck though. :)

  37. Comment by utkal on 19 August 2008:

    There are moments of genuine romance in DTPH and V-Z. In fact DTPH i find a genuinely effecting romantic comedy with many moments of poetry and smart writing. Aditya did a good job of writing in both, especially in DTPH: ‘Chinese, right?’, ” Ladki ke kamre me aane se paehle knock kiya karo ” Ladki, khan hai yahn?” etc. The last poem ‘ Main Kaidi No 786 jail ke khidki sa bhar dekhta hoon, was true poetry, very moving too. The scene with SRK putting on the pajeb on Priety’s feet, the relationship between Rani and SRK are all first rate. As I said Yash Chopra is a much more sincere and poetic filmmaker than aditya or Karan. But yes, V-Z can look a little old-fashioned to the younger audiences.

  38. Comment by nithi_s on 19 August 2008:

    Yash Chopra seems to be showing interest in how Rab ne is shaping up. Lets see. The first look would surely tell.

  39. Comment by Fari on 19 August 2008:

    utkal,
    agree with much of your review. I was bored throughout. It was mostly cliched storytelling and little resonated with me.
    I’m so tired of foreign locations shot in the most unimaginative,boring and characterless way. It all felt very generic to me where its impossible to have any emotional experience with any of the characters.

  40. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    Are you Ram Gopal Varma???
    :P

    On a serious note, thanks alot for your review, agreed or not, it doesn’t matter.

    BTW on a side note, I had same reservations about JTYJN, but BAH, kinda worked for me.

  41. Comment by utkal on 19 August 2008:

    ‘It all felt very generic to me where its impossible to have any emotional experience with any of the characters.’ that articulates my thoughts very well. That’s why I turned off from the film after the first five minutes or so. And never came back again, until maybe for a few minutes when Bipasha was around, doing her bitch routine. She put a bit of soul into her character.

  42. Comment by abhishekr on 19 August 2008:

    For all the JTYJN bashing going on here,i feel it has its keys in the character played by manjari and leveraging Beckett\Ionesco’s theatre of absurd for scoring some commercial points.Its a much smarter piece than what one assumes here!LOL

  43. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    And now when everyone is ripping your review apart, I would like to say what I concurred with your review.

    Deepika’s character, you have brilliantly put that its unbelievable to the core. I came here as a student, so I know students do jobs to sustain their spendings, but then 2 jobs??? with a B school?? you got to be kidding me.

    She drives taxi at night, cashier in the mornings, B school at nights… when she sleeps? When she does her assignments?

    And thats why I think, everyone criticized Deepika’s character, because it didn’t have any realism.

    I do understand he being against to marriage, many girls are, spl nowdays in US, Aussie. There are confident, educated, well to do girls, who don’t wanna get married.

    As far as JTYJN was concerned, when your actors don’t have the enough talent to show a growth in maturity in span of 3 Hours, don’t attempt it. DCH worked because those 3 are good actors, and one of them was god (according to many fans atleast). And even the director was pretty solid. JTYJN, fails from the moment it tries to take itself seriously and how fast it spiralled itself down to drain for me… exemplary.

    BAH on the other hand, never gets too serious, it has a proper mood and it maintains it throughout its running time, that was the best decision by the actors and director.

    Also, Jay, Salam namaste, Hum Tum, BnB….. for me these were the sorriest of movies coming out from YRF.

  44. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    So which Yashraj romances have you liked?

  45. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    I know you will smell conspiracy theory in that but still.
    Only Amitabh-Shahrukh parts of Mohabbatein, DTPH, DDLJ, Yeh Dillagi, Chandini, Lamhe, Silsila, Kabhi Kabhi, Mere Yaar ki shadi hai, Saathiya, and now Bachna Ae Hasino.

  46. Comment by jeegs on 19 August 2008:

    “friends we have Hiten Paintal and I’ll take him over those most annoying cats and rats and jeegs and meows.”

    :(

    lagta hai JTYJN dekhni padegi .

  47. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    No conspiracy theory, just interested! HT and SN were ok, the former being better. BnB IMO is a good film, would definitely put that ahead of everything post DDLJ. But for me this is more a comedy overall. I really don’t rate many of the romances post DDLJ. I would actually put the likes of QSQT, MPK & DDLJ in a different bracket compared to everything that has come since. None of the films since have ever peaked to these films.

  48. Comment by johnnybrutal on 19 August 2008:

    lol utkal, you talk about unbollywoodish movies and you mention jtyjn! The movie is probably the weakest piece of writing in recent times, at the start me and almost everyone i know thought that it was going to be a spoof at the 90s romantic movies but mid way when it starts taking itself seriously it ended like nothing more than a lousy inspired movie. Chalte Chalte, Kkhh, cat sequence from a sanjeev kumar movie, hum paanch, horse/airport ending has been there in a dozen movies!
    Or maybe all those movies borrowed the college experiences of Mr. Tyrewalla

  49. Comment by nithi_s on 19 August 2008:

    I am probably only one to feel this way. DCH worked for me when I sat and watched it with the college group. Then, I tried it to reccommend it to my parents and my older sister. They could hardly sustain through the Mom, Aakash, Sid! Sid, Aakash, Mom introductions. They found it a bore. Even I couldn’t pretend that I want to watch it again and again.

    Sometimes even cinematic stuff like the Basket Ball match between SRK and Kajol in KKHH is enjoyable during re-watch. But not DCH. Guess people like it because they want to like it. I actually find JTYJN better than DCH. Wonder who has similar thoughts.

  50. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    “I actually find JTYJN better than DCH. Wonder who has similar thoughts.”

    Not me! No way! Dil Chahta Hai is just an awesome movie barring portions of the second half. On parents, mine liked it but that is no indication of taste. They liked Baghban, Singh is Kinng & god knows what else. DCH had lovely etched characters and they were very well defined. And the buddy-buddy aspect of it is well drawn out. The humour, well I will say I find the humour in the first half better than any of the useless comedies we see. This was smart, witty humour and the difference was that the characters themselves were funny or sarcastic as opposed to relying on props or ridiculous situations to force humour (except for Saif’s being robbed, most of the humour was actually a kind of one upsmanship between Akash & Sameer)

    I remember seeing this movie in the cinema and being directly after Lagaan, just finding it an amazing triumph for Aamir Khan. Of course DCH is more then this. Saif put in his career best performance, Sameer being a laugh riot. His skits with that useless boyfriend being hilarious. Akshaye Khanna put in one of his best performances. Technically it was a superb movie in the way it was shot, it “looked” fantastic. The soundtrack was peppy, hip and new sound too. And most important of all, the film has aged very well IMO. You could literally put this down to very good production values at the time.

    DCH represents a modern dictate on college life I guess. This is probably why an older generation may find it difficult to relate to.

    I guess you can discount my bias view, only because I truly love this movie for male bonding purposes. It will always remind me of friends and bottomless silly antics one gets upto. Its a film I can relate to which makes it extra special.

    Diss it if you may, but be warned!

  51. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    Ditto views Jay. DCH was one of the best college, male bonding, movie ever to come out of BW.

    Characters were not only build properly, but even grew as the film progressed. You can clearly see the change in the characters in that span of time, in 3 hours we saw all 3 guys growing 10 years.

    And that point about characters being funny, bang on. It didn’t need some crappy, unrealistic situation to get a cheap laugh, but a smart and witty one liner… thats about it.

    It captured the imagination, and attitude of a collegite in truest sense. Though a few can question, how come Goa on such a short notice, I say… have you ever had some crazy friends??? ;) it always is like that

  52. Comment by nithi_s on 19 August 2008:

    Jayshah,

    I guess its the movie for guys. Calling this as Saif’s best performance is insult to him. I thought he was terrific in ‘Ek Hasina thi’, ‘Hum Tum’ and ‘Omkara’. IMO Saif is better actor than Aamir. May be Aamir is creatively ahead. I find Saif better in comic timing. He switches to grey shades with ease. And manages to bring in a realistic intensity to negative characters. (Something SRK confessed that he wud never be able to do)

    I hardly get emotionally satisfied watching DCH. Its just cool movie which is shot relatively in less dramatic way.

    Farhan Akhtar can drag his screenplay. He takes his time to establish his plot. Was evident in Lakshya where everything looked like stage play at times when good actors weren’t alone.

    If you notice Don, everyone speaks in a certain tone as in to establish a mood. Even then things get slow. I mean they are trademarks of Farhan Akhtar. DCH is no exception.

  53. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    “Though a few can question, how come Goa on such a short notice, I say… have you ever had some crazy friends??? it always is like that”

    LOL. I have done impromtu road trips to other countries! It is very much reality! And crazy friends do all kinds of things on road trips…

    But your right on the transition of characters, they do grow up and they grow up naturally in the movie. It makes the movie more interesting compared to JTYJN - the accusation that JTYJN doesn’t have this is unfar IMO because I don’t think it is a movie about growing up! DCH is a movie that does have some morals or messages as such, the whole sequence with friends sitting together discussing about being friends forever, but life always is unpredictable (you could see it coming that the movie would go on a different tangent when this sequence played out). DCH has more to it, then just a film on friends. It goes full circle on 3 friends who separate and then comeback together - its bit more suggestive. JTYJN is not “aiming” for such things, its just a simple college love story. To expect scenes on job searches, the climate of India’s economy and all that detail - well its asking for all too much!

    “Calling this as Saif’s best performance is insult to him”

    I meant to that date. Sorry.

  54. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    “I guess its the movie for guys.”

    Quite possibly. Now you can understand why I don’t like KKHH or DTPH or K3G or KHNH or V-Z that much :-)

  55. Comment by nithi_s on 19 August 2008:

    :) “To expect scenes on job searches, the climate of India’s economy and all that detail - well its asking for all too much!
    ”

    Actually, there are references to job, post graduation in JTYJN. At the end of the day JTYJN is more relatable than recent romantic movies from YRF brand of products.

  56. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    Nithi: “I guess its the movie for guys”

    Thats it, today I got the answer to why no girl liked the movie as we guys do. I never actually thought in this way, so thanks alot.

    Yes drooling over our teachers, taking pot chots at someone else’s “love” life, fooling around, being more in parties than college classes, is much of a guy thing.

    Thats how the movie works for us.

    About JTYJN, if I have to pick a more realistic movie than BAH, I bet, a movie where brotherrs gets locked up in a same cell, where a guy takes a “ghoda” to reach the airport, where girls and guys party till so late at night, then again WALKS a girl home in a metro, a guy actually sees the girl, who plays “imagine”, second time, where story tellers and listeners are so over excited, where shok sabhas happen for a cat, where a brother of a friend talks like that, will hardly make the cut.

    And you know the most unrealistic part of JTYJN….. a girl and a guy, being such close platonic friends, a non romantic relatioship.

    Also I thought they were not really in love… but just shocked for being saperated… nothing else.

    But then if we have to see real life, cinema is hardly the place to aim for. Its the entertainment which matters, and Imran and Genelia, didn’t have any chemistry nor there was any entertainment in the movie. Everything looked forcuful to me, their jokes, those “cool” names, that fake love,… everything.

    BAH on the other hand was a tale of a guy, who is immature, foolish, and good looking, how many times I have seen guys like this….

    It had a mood, which was retained throughout the movie, unlike JTYJN, which was not able to decide which route to take. Comedy, teen flick or a serious love story.

    Also I think a movie’s ending is the most important part, a thing which a viewer tends to carry home. Sad, or happy, or anything, atleast it has to be good. And JTYJN had the most bizzare ending even by BW standards.

  57. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    I am going to get bashed for this but I think for many people, Aamir’s association with JTYJN is what makes them love it. The film was mediocre at best. There was no reality in the teen life portrayed! I have been asked where I have seen a character like Prateik Babbar - in endless Western films, but never in an Indian home! I have never seen such unconcerned teens in the current Indian climate, not a one has any thought about studies, job etc. To me their endless harping on romance is way more fake than the obsession Ranbir and Hiten have with making it out with girls! That is the reality of many young men. And the comic ways in which they go about living their life is way more funny than fake songs like Pappu can’t dance saala! I do not want to review the film all over again, after doing a review on NG.

    Deepika’s track was the least developed in BAH - and it was interesting that Raj ends up falling in love with her. Had this been a conventional love story, we would see much more of their relationship. But this film was all about the past and how those relationships needed to get closure before he could move on. In JTYJN we had teens/post-teens who were in constant company of each other and the dreaded word ’sex’ was not mentioned, never implied at all. They went on camp-outs and hung out in each other’s bedrooms without any hanky panky? Gimme a break! How fake is that? At least in BAH the relationship between Bipasha and Ranbir was one with a full physical side to it. I found the comedy in JT so forced - we are supposed to laugh because a young man is going through a luggage conveyor belt? That is akin to Akki exchanging tickets with Ranvir and ending up in Egypt (of course we have no ideas who Om Puri exchanged tickets with!) in SIK! And we can see no humor in all the ways Ranbir is trying to get Bipasha to dump him?

    Jeegs - do not worry mate. In JTYJN you will find the obligatory Gujju friend called Jignesh whose nick is Jeegs - he is also the stupidest of the lot. So pardon me if I do not buy that typical stereotyping and prefer to think that a guy named Jeegs can still be intelligent ;-)

  58. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    LOL the audacity!

    Right here goes neelu - take in the right spirit!

    1. JTYJN has ticked some boxes as far as I am concerned. Not your “box” but others. Consider reviews for a start. http://www.allbollywood.com/movies/2008/832/jaane_tu_ya_jaane_na/ The film has only ONE negative review. 4 average one’s and the rest all positive. Of course critics are bankrupt but even the likes of Rangan were positive about the movie. Critics - check.

    2. The audience have loved the movie period. At least the core audience. A film does not fall ONLY 15% in week two if it has not drawn acceptance. Box office - check.

    3. Rather than suggest it is Aamir’s association that has led people to love the movie why not the contrary? Why not say, it is Aamir’s association that has led some to detest the movie!!! You leave yourself open to such an accusation if your in the business of dealing with them. Why not? Because you have the dubious distinction of disliking Lagaan & TZP. But you like CDI of course. Fair enough. You will blow potholes into Aamir’s choice of Fanaa but readily accept choices like KKHH or K3G! So your position on Aamir is a rather distinct one I guess. Your against the applecart so to speak, rather outspoken and negative in general on him.

    So where does the evidence actually stack up? I’ll leave you to answer that.

    Finally the film does not talk about sex. Did DTPH, KKHH or QSQT have this? Did you see the lead stars doing any hanky panky? Is this a valid reason to bash JTYJN? Especially when Abbas has gone on record to say he deliberately wanted a clean film with no use of the word sex. His next will interest you, its an adult romance and will show it! But the point is very few movies show sex or even mention it. KANK and Fanaa did. Is it a pre-requiste for a college drama to have it? I beg to differ, especially when films like DDLJ and MPK and QSQT hardly mention it but succeeded immensely!

    Your gripe against JTYJN can be labelled at many college love stories. Even the one you mentioned KKHH as simplicity and sweetness. And this is probably what JTYJN aims to be. An innocent, simple and sweet love story without the word SEX!

    On education, books and all. I didn’t see much education going on in KKHH. In fact Rahul gets questions on “what does love mean to him” in school. Hardly education! Instead of school, you have Rani reciting songs, kids playing basketball allday, school concerts, but no education! Where was the thoughts about studies?

    Job? All I see is Rahul not wearing his trousers. Or Anjali doing some summercamp. Any mention of a fulltime job? QSQT - did they have jobs? DDLJ did they have jobs?

    What kind of reasons are these to bash a film?

  59. Comment by Kanwal on 19 August 2008:

    Jayshah i would like to say one thing, JTYJN only got maybe few crores in the opening week due to aamir khan. IT opened at what ~ 20 cr, the same amount that kismet konnection and BAH will make in the first week.

    SO that is just a normal good week opening these days(ie 20 cr).

    JTYJN was LIKED by the audience. Thats the main point here.
    No SRK or Aamir can bring repeat audience to a movie people have discarded, remember MP,swades and paheli,KANK.(irrespective of the movie being bad or good).

    KK will fall short of 30 Cr , BAH may make a bit more,
    why did JTYJN make 50+ cr. ITs WOM, simple.

    SO basically its useless to dislike JTYJN because of Aamir association, because in the first place aamir is not the main cause of JTYJN success.

  60. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    Jay - take this in the right spirit too then. In the past movies like Dhoom, Dhoom2, Welcome, OSO, SIK have all been huge hits, loved by audiences, some even by a majority of critics, and been big blockbusters! In my book that is not a stamp of approval or of quality on a film. So why is JTYJN any different? The likes of Rangan and our own abzee have things to say about BAH too - but some are being selective in picking pluses, just as they are in picking BOX numbers :-)

    Do I have to love Lagaan and TZP? Why? Why is my love of QSQT, JJWS, AAA (an almost perfect comedy), DCH not enough? Beats me. But it is hard to stomach YR vilification (prime reason - their association with a certain star), when the same people praise Fanaa to high heaven. Double standards! I will wait for K Jo acceptance to start after he gives Abhi his first (and possibly only) hit of 2008! But maybe it will still be vilification of all K Jo films EXCEPT Dostana - that one will has to be special because of the cast!

    When I spoke of the “sex” content, I was talking of JTYJN compared to BAH - and the comment was directed at Utkal and his rant against lack of realism in BAH, and huge doses of it in JTYJN. If you believe a film set in 2008 compares to movies that happened 10-15 years ago, then I misread your knowledge of Hindi cinema - ;-)

    Fact is there is no realism in JTYJN, there is not much in BAH either, but a bit more for me. Whether we like one or the other is entirely up to us. I am NOT BASHING JTYJN per se, this is only in context of BAH, and in comparison to it - which for me came out quite a bit ahead.

    Anyone who thinks that I or anyone else disliked JTYJN because of Aamir, and is praising BAH for that reason, needs their head examined. They also need to look at who all are doing the praising.

    This is all about the charm and charisma of a young man - time will tell where Ranbir ends up, but I have him pegged as a rising star who will give many not yet established stars (like Abhi, Shahid, Imran, and many lesser ones) no room to breathe.

  61. Comment by Kanwal on 19 August 2008:

    I have seen both BAH and Jaane tu. Didnt like anyone much,
    probably BAH a little better. I usually dont like romantic movies so maybe my fault.

    But during watching the movies and seeing the reactions of young people i could make out that romantic youth will def latch upto both the movies and hence their success.

  62. Comment by Kanwal on 19 August 2008:

    Neelu i know for sure there are people who disliked JTYJN because of AAmir, those people are hardcore kind of fans who like to see the rivals fail.

  63. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    Sandy liked BAH more than JTYJN - so that demolishes that hypothesis. I actually liked Imraan quite a bit, but detested Genelia for being completely fake. I admire Aamir for catapulting his production to success, sound business sense. But I still do not like the film. I think Aamir and SRK are hardly rivals anymore - apparently they are both fighting off the dominance of Akki ;-)

  64. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    I agree with Neelu to a large extent.
    That both SRK and Aamir are fighting to keep pace with Akki… :P

    anyhow, I don’t care about realistic approach of eaither BAH or even JTYJN, but latter’s sheer ridiculesness being presented as coolness was the thing I detest the most.

    Meow, Rats, Jeegs, Rotlu, names smell of fake coolness. At the same time, DCH, which was a lot cooler, and hipper had such normal names.

    And Genelia and Imran were not even a patch on Ranbir Kapoor’s acting in BAH, to whom the movie belonged.

    Even if you dislike the Ranbir-Deepika track, which I guess no one liked, still it was less than 1/3rd of the movie, more than 2/3rd of the movie was still as good as any romantic movie can get.

    But then again thats your choice.

    As far as critics loving film is concerned… they loved many movies, as Neelu mentioned, and again as she said, Gadar, which is always torn apart to no ends, Border, again which is shredded beyond belief, and as many movies she already mentioned.

    I think now you know Jay, that I absolutely loved DCH, if I have to pick an Aamir movie, it will be DCH not Lagaan, thats how much I loved it, and JTYJN, was nothing but a very sorry attempt on DCH. Its not about Aamir, its about the movie my friend. It was trash, to begin with, to end with.

    But then again, I liked Race, what can I say ;)

  65. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    “Its not about Aamir, its about the movie my friend”

    That is only the same level of respect one asks for on a forum. My rant was directed at neelu and for this reason specifically.

  66. Comment by Tony Montana on 19 August 2008:

    OK just watched ‘BAH’. Its a decent entertainer(way better than that trash JTYJN). What I didn’t like was the ending..They could have done better. Other than tht rest of the movie was extremely entertaining and a lot of fun.

    Ranbir acting is very adequate, very natural. He reminds me of SRK(pre kkhh)..I am def impressed!!

  67. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    LOL - at me for not liking Lagaan? I am sorry, but I do not have to like that film, I did not like that film, and nothing can make me like it. JTYJN was better in comparison to that one for me. But that does not make me an Aamir hater because I like many of his films - just do not believe much in his carefully constructed perfectionist persona.

  68. Comment by Kanwal on 19 August 2008:

    As for srk-aamir camps , none of them is even in my top 5.

    Ten years ago both of them played a double whammy of Raja hindustani and DTPH and wrecked havoc on my senses. I am not joking, this led to my utter hate for romantic movies.

    Seriously, i didnt even have a cursory interest in bollywood movies(especially romantic) for the better part of last 10 years.

    It took a extended unemployed time at home and extensive internet access last year to hook me back to bollywood.

    I have detested SRK for a long time.I am an ideal case of someone tortured by his romantic movies throughout the years and in only last few years has he become tolerable for me.Now i find him ok.
    Didnt dislike him as much in K3G and KANK as people have.

    As for Aamir i havent liked his TZP . Though liked his sarfarosh,DCH and RDB.So i like him little better than SRK.

    But i think i have a mental block for liking anyone of these beyond a certain point.

    I like salman,sanjay,saif,akshay way better than these two.

  69. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    Kanwal: “I like salman,sanjay,saif,akshay way better than these two.”

    I personally request to NG authorities to revoke his membership. A guy who can not fight for the dominance of Shahrukh, Aamir or Bachchans, shudn’t be allowed to post here.

    What is NG if not a battleground for the fans of the above mentioned God Like Legendary Kinngs and Kings?

    Such members add nothing to the ongoing rivalry of the fans.

    We don’t need people who are constantly trying to tip toe around controversies.

  70. Comment by SK on 19 August 2008:

    gabber ko gussa ayega.

    Asli king to akshay hai

  71. Comment by Kanwal on 19 August 2008:

    Kunal bhai 24th ko to ja hi raha hoon,
    thoda timepass kar le ne dijeye.

    BTW i dont dislike aamir and srk that much, just wanted to play around with the fans.
    See some reactions.

  72. Comment by neelu on 19 August 2008:

    :-) Here’s to many more such discussions on NG! Vive la difference!

  73. Comment by rks on 19 August 2008:

    Wow!

  74. Comment by Kunal27 on 19 August 2008:

    why you are impressed rks?
    I thought you wud be mad
    :D

  75. Comment by rks on 19 August 2008:

    Kunal: I saw this thread in morning before leaving in morning to catch flight. And I am in hotel at night and members are still fighting.

  76. Comment by sandy on 19 August 2008:

    Neelu: You didn’t like TZP and Lagaan even! Now, that seems strange to say the very least! These are two great cinematic peaks, esp Lagaan. And to say ‘I didn’t like it’ is a bit of a simplistic statement. I mean, one is entitled not to like a Pather Panchali or Trishul or a Sholay but to dismiss it off would seem childish and would ever reek of clear bias!

  77. Comment by sandy on 19 August 2008:

    Neelu: To not like Lagaan is not the problem but to not recogonise its strengths or see it as an influential film would be missing the bigger picture. For example, one is allowed to find Swades a ‘sluggish’ film but to say it is a useless one or it doesn’t count doesn’t make an argument –unless one presents a case.

  78. Comment by jayshah on 19 August 2008:

    She doesn’t like cricket but she doesn’t mind hockey :-)

  79. Comment by neelu on 20 August 2008:

    Jay - why is that strange? Maybe I played hockey and am finally glad to see my favorite sport glorified for a change? Or maybe it has nothing to do with the sport content at all? Sandy - I think we can have a discussion on Lagaan at some point in time. Did I say anywhere that I dismiss its influence? I was merely mentioning that my liking Lagaan or not is in no way germane to this discussion. The discussion has meandered quite a bit, and now people who have not even seen the film under discussion are taking potshots! Strange!

  80. Comment by jayshah on 20 August 2008:

    neelu it was a joke…you can like Lagaan or not is upto you. No issues at all. I’ve said my piece and thats me done.

    In any case, I accept I have misbehaved here and quite deliberately. But don’t consider these comments with some kind of malice against you. Don’t let it get to your head, but your one of my fav NGers.

    rks - punish me, leave neelu alone.

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