Aish is looking WOW! Her hairstyle reminds me of Sridevi.
Abhi is looking intense…
If one closey looks at Abhishek’s lineup-
Sarkaar Raaj
Dilli 6
Dostaana
Drona
ManiRathnam’s next
all the above has potential to hit big…the most loose end is Drona…The direcor is the biggest strategic blunder here.
Aish-
Sarkaar Raaj
Rajni’s Robot
Manirathnam’s next
I think that still of Ash and Amitabh is awesome: the expression in her eyes is such that the whole image, with great economy, conveys what I imagine to be her character’s “new world” corporate ishtyle contempt for the “old school” patriarch’s ways…
Yes Nitesh. And, while I certainly hope all these films are successful, at a minimum I’ll say that they mostly seem to have the potential for strong roles (thinking in particular of Dilli-6, Sarkar Raj, and Rathnam’s next; and, I have a good feeling about Drona too).
Ash really looks wow. This movie will work and big. Ash has started lokking like a princess these days. I saw a fews clippings of her of JA and she looks like Rani Padmini more than Rani Jodha. Rani Padmini incidentally was one of the most beautiful and regal looking queens in time immemorial.
On paper Abhishek has got the best movies,better than the likes of Hrithik,SRK and Akshay lined up in the coming months which will be benificial for him from both commercial and critical point of view.
IMO…going by the banner and no of films die to release…the following actors can be ranked-
1. Abhishek
2. SRK
3. Saif
4. Akshay
5. Salman
6. Aamir
7. Hrithik
8. Shahid
however going by the current position and adv…rankings(bsed on the types of movies in hand) become-
1. Akshay (on a roll)
2. Abhishek
3. Salman
4. SRK
5. Aamir
6. Hrithik
7. Saif
I do hope he makes it better than Sarkar. I was really disappointed by Sarkar that could have been made lot better.
I hope that RGV does not relegate Bachchan to the background and he has an equally important role but somehow I have the feeling that this will be showcasing Abhi and Ash which would be very disappointing me as Bachchan can kill in these kind of roles and watching “American Gangster” this weekend just reiterated the fact what a powerhouse “Bachchan” is.
Nitesh: Akshay has got the best projects purely from commercial point of view, not sure of critical success.Abhishek has got the right blend of movies which will do good commercially and critically.as far as SRK is concerned his movie with Karan excites the most, could well surprise us.
Som, agree with you on Akshay, Abhi and SRK.
If you purely go by the merits of films in hand…then Akshay is at No 4….
but if you include his current + factor…he is with Abhi together….
“If you purely go by the merits of films in hand…then Akshay is at No 4″
yeah, that was my main concern, evaluated from sheer quality point of view.i guess this could be the films of top stars which could do well commercially and critically:
“I would have hoped someone from the fairer sex would have excited you Som dear than a pairing of KJO and SRK.”
Ravi bhai: i am in the minority who did like KANK.it was definitely a brave attempt from Karan, so i hope he does a much better job in KHAN than what he did with KANK.just becoz he is now willing to experiment without really fearing to loose, i would give him the benifit of doubt.
Ash looks gorgeous in the photos…SR will probably have less action than Sarkar. For me the highlight of the movie was AB Jr eliminating one baddie after the other.
I know its wishful thinking but would have loved to see SRK play a dark, suave Don in this movie squaring off against the bachchans (something like Chak De meets RGV).
I honestly don’t much of a distinction between an Aag and a Sarkar.. in both films all we saw was long close-ups of the lead actors staring into the camera with some heavy annoyingly loud background music, and then there’d be shots of the supporting actors in teh scene one by one with teh strangest of camera angles though making their own weird poses.. lol.. and after some scarily long dead silences by the actors , the bg music is lowered slightly to allow teh actor to muster out his punch-line to start his dialogue.. and then there’s another punch-line at the end the dialogues (whther it’s one person doing it or more than in some kind of altercation) towards the end of the scene.. but ofcourse teh scne ends again with loudening of the annoying bg music and having either the actors walk their “cool” walk or else another close-up like the start of the scene.
anyways.. aag ends up looking a lot worse coz there’s the automatic comparsion with Sholay, perhaps in one’s unconscious mind if not the conscious one.
As for actors’ forthcoming films.. dunno much about any..haven’t kept a track… though Aamir is always inetesting.. his last 4-5 films been way better than anoy other lead actor’s film in the same time frame.. but on paper as of now.. I got mixed feelings. Ghajini is aremake of a South film (how many non-remakes does Aamir have in total in his career).. and I don’t think much of them South films.. Dunno of a single South film (dubbed) that I liked.. and don’t even ask about the remake ones.
And as for his Hirani film.. well.. it’s a film that SrK turned down.. again I have mixed thoughts on that one.
But at the end of the day, with Aamir one is assured of the movie being good no matter who is the director (heck I even loved Fanaa).. You see a Mela only once in a decade.
Among the future line-up for all the stars, Shahid i feel is going to the dark horse here … Abhi and Akshay are the more prolific ones here … but that doesnt neccessarily mean prolific success.
On the other hand, the power trio of SRK, Aamir and Hrithik are concentrating in a very few projs … chances are more that each of those are going to be successful in a big way.
“yeah, that was my main concern, evaluated from sheer quality point of view.”
Som…let me taken an example from physics to expalin you something…
momentum = mass * velocity
In the context of films; mass= quality, velocity = hits
a star needs to have momentum…
at present the velocity of Akshay and SRK is the highest….
looking at the future, srk has less quantitative velocity but then he compensates it with mass..
talking about akshay….he is compensating mass with velocity…thus ensuring that his momentum is max always…
ofcourse he runs a danger if he loses velocity…
but for now…he is unstoppable because he has lept ahead because of his sheer momentum.
so when you talk about quality…you have to see the context…
velocity is very important to take an object forward…
with every hit, velocity increases..which we call acceleration…
so it becomes mass * acceleration = Force…
so if Akshay keep on giving hit after hits…he will soon hit top acceleration and will zoom ahead even if people hace project of better mass (quality) but not necessarily equally good velocity.
hey.. why are these pics being posted again and again.. I’m sure satyam alone has posted them more than once… not to mention the fact that in this thread alone each of the two been posted twice with different resolution. what point u tryin to prove.. ?
As acceleration increases, the mass falls in this equation taking force as fixed. I think you need to talk about force now. Soon Akshay will be moving the moon I think
Nitesh: i said about the movies that will please both the critics and the paying public.Akshay could well deliver hits after hits and become NO 1, i dont deny that, but if someone like Abhishek comes up with Sarkarraaj, Dilli6 and Mani’s next which all become prestige hits, it is him who gains the maximum momentum IMO.every actor wants to have success like TZP or CDI or RDB.
I dunno why Nitesh been trying so hard to make a case for Akshay being on a roll at teh Bo office and others stars are not.. forget about being the only one having a good run or teh only one with back-to-back hits, the others not only match his run but some have actually had it a lot better.
And 2007 was a good year for him.. but didn’t 2006 featured in some of the biggest BO disapointments of that year - JeM, Family and Humko Deewana Kar Gaye.
(And I think there was one Jeeva Saathi too.. but maybe that’s a long-in-the-making film.. or had him in a tiny role.. though it could be a full-fledged lead role by akki.. anyways I never seen it)
But yeah.. Akki last 4 hits get total blown up by SrK and Hrithik’s last four hits.. and even Aamir has had as good run as Akshay, even though every film of his been a dozen times more risky than any of akshay hits in the same time period.
Ach…i know you like Hrithik….so must add that Hrithik has huge potential and with movies like JA…he will one day occupy Aamir’s place…
Abhishek on the other hand looks a lambi race ka ghoda….has tremendous potential (not as much as Hrithik) but can beat Hrithik by giving more hits in good projects.
SP…rest assured SRK will not be replaced by anyone…infact i think he should become a full fledged producer now and cast Akshay, Hrithik and Aamir in his films and count dollars.
SP…now that you are on Akshay…please let me add…
Akshay had 4 hits in 1 year…that makes a difference…
it is like you having 4 birthdays…:)
of course SRK had two big ones…so i am not denying that…
infact i never say that Akshay is No 1…he is far from it…
but the way he is going he may become closer …though replacing SRK at this stage is like replacing an elaphant from its ass.
but i must add…as an Akshay fan…i think i am enjoying the most…
his next is round the corner…looks big
has given 5 back to back hits…
has emerged big time…
so it is sunshine time.
Nitesh good last comment. You made all fans happy now. Now tell me what happens if Akshay’s force is fixed, the acceleration increases and his mass decreases. This means he is not gaining momentum ! Whats happened now. He’d be like a bullet I guess. Or someone throwing a marble at me. He needs to increase his mass to compensate for this.
JustaFan…he can always do the ‘before’ part of the add in Gillete!!!!
Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t remember Amitabh with a natural beard in any of his movies until he did Mohabbatein when he was ..what 58? I think someone has told Junior B that he looks more manly with a beard.
come to think of it….Junior B did have a clean shave in GURU.
“Now tell me what happens if Akshay’s force is fixed, the acceleration increases and his mass decreases. This means he is not gaining momentum ! Whats happened now. He’d be like a bullet I guess. Or someone throwing a marble at me. He needs to increase his mass to compensate for this”
jay…you are assuming that mass is decreasing…which on the contrary is increasing….what do you say now?
wud have loved to go on with this..but have a presentation tommorrow and have to burn some midnight oil for that..so see you 2mmorrow
but i must add…as an Akshay fan…i think i am enjoying the most…
his next is round the corner…looks big
has given 5 back to back hits…
has emerged big time…
so it is sunshine time 4 all Akki fan
I tried to know it but found it very hard. To many formulae all interlinked, all depending on each other. But good work. Think you made a case, but I would say as Akshay’s velocity increases, his mass falls. It is simply impossible to get good quality projects and churn it out at regular intervals. its usually the poor quality stuff that comes out in quick succession and the quality stuff one has to wait for. So in that case momentum really depends on how big the mass is vs rate of velocity. I would put SRK’s year > Akshay Kumar’s year. His velocity was less, but his mass was greater. Overall momentum carried through is greater.
Street: responding to your last comment on Akshay,i think we are forgeting both Krrish and D2 had the advantage of being associated with big banners .Akshay still has not the opportunity to work with the big banners.2008 will be different as he will have Tashan with Yash Raj which has everything going in its favour to be a record grosser.if it certainly becomes one, there is no point in saying Akshay’s movies cant be as big as any HR or SRK movie.
Nitesh - You dont need to keep pushing Akshay … Akshay has delivered and proved to everyone where he currently stands in the industry … If he can continue the string of Hits this year, only sky is the limit for him.
As for SRK, he has silenced all his detractors with a critically acclaimed Blockbuster CDI and a commercial Blockbuster hom,e production in OSO.
Aamir has made a statement with good acting and brilliant direction taking his debut directorial project to Blockbuster level.
With JA, Hrithik has made a statement that he is on his way to become an unique combination of SRK/Aamir of his generation.
Abhishek has unfortunately lost a lot of ground. He still has a lot to prove to be among the top bracket, but his coming projects has the potential to boost his status.
Saif hasnt been able to take any further steps after Omkara. Even if Race/Tashan works well, Akki will walk away with the credit.
Shahid to me is THE dark horse … he has turned out to be a good and sincere actor and seems determined to prove his worth.
“…now that you are on Akshay…please let me add…
Akshay had 4 hits in 1 year…that makes a difference…”
It’s about having back-to-back hits.. the fact that it comes in one year or two years doesn’t make much of a difference. To think of it.. SrK 4 hits came within 15 months and Akshay’s did within 10 months. It’s not that huge of a difference there.
Not sure I follow: Akshay’s Hey Baby was in the same range as DON and KANK, and Bhool Bhulaiya managed 40 crores even though he isn’t in half the film. Welcome was < Om Shanti Om, but > Chak De India, even though Welcome was released with competition from Taare Zameen Par. It was said on NG that Jaaneman knocked off crores from Don’s opening, so by the same yardstick, absent TZP, Welcome might well have matched Om Shanti Om.
Second, it’s the OPENING that testifies to star power, not the final gross (recognizing this is a generalization, but still will serve for this discussion): and on that front, Akshay’s graph has shown a very marked upward swing: Welcome opened — despite TZP competition — within a few crores of Om Shanti Om, and at Dhoom 2 level (if latter was released a year previously, it also did not face competition). And even Hey Baby and Bhool Bhulaiya opened > Chak De India, Taare Zameen Par (if the latter had a genre disadvantage, note that they were also the heros’ first films in a while, as opposed to akshay’s once-in-3-months deal).
I’m not saying Akshay is #1. What I am saying is that the debate needs to be framed fairly.
what Akshay lacks is some critical successes.i believe if SRK and Aamir or for that matter Hrithik keep on doing movies like OSO,Fanaa and D2 respectively, big grossers wont be a problem for them IMO.whether you agree or not, thesedays if someone manages to get prestige hits i.e a perfect blend of critical and commercial success, it cant get bigger than this.
starnotinthe making.. I am not taking away anything from Akshay. and I a, probabaly teh only on teh forum who puts Akshay at heels with Aamir at teh star rankings… I was simply reminding Nitesh (and some others here) that apart Abhishek almost every other major star is on a roll and delivering a good run of hits.
CDI inspite of its theme and genre made much more than a commercial masala comedies of HB/BB. Also the opening wasnt much less than thses Akki genre films!
And TZP was never meant to open well with its genre disadvantage and Aamir in a supporting act. But still it grossed more than HB/BB/NL!
The likes of TZP/CDI were actully much more successful than Welcome/BB/HB and what not mindless masala comedies thats Akki’s only strong point till now.
No one can ignore Akki’s Hits, but the argument needs to be fair here too.
Yes SP, I support you on that. Over the years you have given Akshay his due, even when his neo fans (post welcome second week, after cutting short week 1 by 5-6 crores), were putting him down, a couple of years back.
“Som…let me taken an example from physics to expalin you something…
momentum = mass * velocity
In the context of films; mass= quality, velocity = hits”
LOL Nitesh. Even definition of prestige changes with time. Probably we need to go into Einsteinian domain from Newtonian to encompass all the variables.
“Second, it’s the OPENING that testifies to star power, not the final gross”
Qalnadar: that is true to some extent,but we have to take into consideration the genre factor also.most of the Akshay’s movies that took big openings were all the comedy ones, his strongest genre.NL and JM which were not the usual Akshay’s movies did open poorly.Its just not applicable to Akshay, every stars be it SRK or Aamir or Hrithik all get affected by the genre limitations.at one hand when srk’s OSO took the biggest opening, CDI started on a slow note.
I agree with SP on almost all top stars having a good run. A quick look at the recent movies:
SRK:
- OSO
- CDI
- DON
- KANK
Aamir:
- TZP
- Fanaa
- RDB
Hrithik:
- JA (verdict still not out but its already a succes now)
- Dhoom 2
- Krrish
Akshay:
- Welcome
- BB
- HB
- NL
Abhi was been having too frequent disasters to propel himself into this echelon … his only solo release in 2006 was a disaster (UJ) … his most anticipated commercial venture with YRF was a Flop. Thats ignoring the blushes caused in D2 and the LCMD fiasco.
NL made 37 cr .. while KANK is a 48 cr grosser. Half the film? well half the initial too.. and the difference between the gross of the two films is a significant one as well. Not to mention that KANK’s major returns actually come from the overseas market, the audience the film was actually pitched to. And in India, maybe KANK is not a bigger hit than NL was, but certainly not any smaller either. Overeas, don’t even bother asking.. no need to embarass yourself there.
Then there’s Don.. which made 51 cr… as much as Heyy Baby made. I’m not even going to bother talking about how Don was a thriller was SrK’s first scuess in the genre in more than a decade.. while HeyBaby was yet another run-of-the-mill for him. Anyways.. numbers on the face value alone again match.. even if Don doesn’t surpass it.
Then.. CDI is a 65 cr grosser while only 54.. Forget everything else about the movies’c omparison.. when a CDI beats out a BB on the raw numbers alone.. then end of story. I’d be really surrprised if one person on this earth could make a case for the latter being more commendable a success.
And then we have OSO’s 87 cr gross vs 75 cr. That’s a 12 cr difference right there.
Unless ofcourse you take IBOS or jay, and consider CDI a hit becasue of tax exemption and OSO only an “earner” , SrK’s run is aso good if not better than Akshay’s current run at the BO.. and that’s speaking of the numbers alone. When you talk of the other factors, it’s not even close.
Akshay, Abhishek, Aamir, SRK, Salman, etc all have very good films coming up. They are all doing very well. There is enough room in the industry for everyone.
I do always have a laugh at these SrK-haters, the way they change teh game when different stars are compared to SrK. Teh arugument that some of you guys are using to propel Akshay over SrK (or close to him), will blow out every SrK/Aamir BO debate of yors on this very forum.
well, Ravi bhai, the momentum gained by Guru was dampened quite a bit after JBJ failure, his unwanted appearance in the mother-of-all disaster AAG .. then then the blushes of LCMD.
btw, whats the point of posting the pics so many times?
The beard does help the serious look … but abhi’s eyes are too expressionless and blank imo.
Abhishek also had an appearance in OSO which was a blockbuster. That had no effect on his status. In the same vein Aag and LCMD had no real bearing on Abhishek’s status. Guest roles in hit or flop films don’t count. Abhishek had only two real films last year which were: Guru and JBJ.
Guru was a critical acclaimed film that went on to become a hit film. JBJ failed at box office. But he still had at least one hit film last year. Abhishek actually fared well in 2007. He has potential with his films in 2008, etc. to continue to do well. Abhishek is a versatile actor with some good projects. He along with the other actors are doing well. Not only do the actor’s win but also the different fanbases win because they have so many different films to choose from. This year looks like it will have lots of variety.
LCMD wasn’t a one song/dance appearance like Aag … the much hyped dad-son item number of Aag was well publicized … and was a equally big disappointment.
Guru moment is long gone … no steps fwd since then .. and his future films are getting postponed too.
I agree with Eire here.Abhishek had 2 relases last year, Guru clicked JBJ not which was a set back considering it came from Yash Raj.this year he has got variety of films, so should do very well IMO.
BOI was accused of tryin to put doewn Munnabhai, but IBOS turned out lowe. But last year IBOs cut down Shootout by about 10 cr, buth there was astoic silence when I pointed it out.
This year the Hrithik hater BOI ( allegedly an SRK financed site) which cut down the Krrish total ( but not D;2 as it had the highest for the movie that also had Abhi) is giving JA its due ( to SRK’s biggest competetitor), to is par kuch nahi.
Geat a life jokers. soon your own siblings will not take you seriously.
Abhishek looks fine to me here but I think Ramu has got Ash’s look completely wrong . This is the problem with directors portraying strong, individualistic career women - they have to necessarily take on a no frills look with combed-back hair and business suits and what have you. Basically, they have to denounce some of their feminity and take on a more masculine approach to dressing even. Madhur Bandarkar made the same mistake in Corporate.
Why should a woman being a corporate czarina and retaining her feminine charms/ dressing be mutually exclusive?
Did Abhishek get a case of chickenpox or something in the last few years due to which he constantly prefers to keep a beard for hiding the freckles?
In Guru, some of the closeup shots did reveal lots of freckles on his face. I guess he would not want to end up looking like Om Puri.
Aweosme pics..love the last pic of Abhishek!!!!! Ramu is BACK..thats for sure…
As for things being posted several times..we have a number of things on NG posted OVER and over again..so why not this:)? From memory there was ONE pic earlier, and now this which has more pics…
Abhisheks line up rocks….Aamir’s lineup is better….Anyone who loses out on Hirani’s film is either a moron…or wait..a moron:)
“Guru moment is long gone … no steps fwd since then .. and his future films are getting postponed too.”—Lets see after DILLI 6 and SARKAR RAAJ! Too early to say…
I am hoping Ramu has gone back to his basics…and stripped off his attitude etc. that he had…and makes a decent movie…
I just hope he changes the person who gave background music in the earlier Sarkaar…It was horrible in that movie…Amitabh, Abhishek, Aishwarya and rest of the cast will do the rest to make this movie a decent experience.
And if he does advertise it as “India’s most powerful family”…It just means that Mr. Ram ‘Aag’ Gopal Varma is still on his way down…I hope he’s not as stupid as that…
Although I do agree with Sandy, that Ash’s look is devoid of her femininity I still quite like Ash’s look. I expect her to have a very strong role here, and I hope Sarkar Raaj turns out better then the first part.
Some thoughts from The Skeptic (in reverse order):
3 Mar 08, 18:40
TheSkeptic: All this is to say that much as audiences and critics would like filmgoing to be as predictably rewarding as withdrawing money from an ATM (though, with the global economic climate being what is, today even that is not so certain!), with some filmmakers, at least, no such guarantees will ever be on offer. After Daud, I would have expected most viewers to cotton to this fact, but to hark back to Mani’s words, audiences since then have slipped back into thinking Varma “knows” everything. Now after Aag, the same audiences think that THEY know everything, and that Varma is an insect to be crushed under one’s foot. I’m suggesting that both positions are wrong.
3 Mar 08, 18:28
TheSkeptic: From there the missteps quickly multiplied. The “look” of the film, in an attempt to be as ahead of today’s films as Sholay was in relation to the films of its era, erred, I think, in homing in on a variety of distorting lenses and angles, which lend the film a forbiddingly ugly feel, which is then further compounded by a sickly-green DI job. DI can be a powerful tool, as is evident from the rich, sepia hues of Sarkar, but more often can result in a dull and unrelenting monochromaticism that tires the eye and mind. To my mind, Varma goes wrong with both the blue-grey tints of Nishabd as well as the greens of Aag. Why exactly is this so would take a lot of thinking to grasp. After all, Gore Verbinski uses a similar tint on The Ring - in fact this sort of post-production color manipulation is de rigueur for most Hollywood films.
3 Mar 08, 18:11
TheSkeptic: Aag was Varma’s most bedeviled project, with actors dancing in and out, Sasha moving all heaven and earth to frustrate Varma’s intentions, and the sheer audience animus that the idea of a Sholay remake seems to have provoked - with everyone preferring their favorite stars as Veeru, Jai, Basanti etc. And the concept itself comes with some insuperable difficulties - how to “urbanize” Sholay, yet stay clear of the been-there, done-that Mumbai gangster genre?
3 Mar 08, 18:05
TheSkeptic: Tearing filmmakers and sometimes actors into tiny little pieces and bloodily muching on these pieces is our modern form of cheering at lions devouring Christians in Roman times, or the adult equivalent to chidlren plucking the wings off dragonflies and butterflies - the sort of cruelty that we cannot do without, apparently, however sophisticated we consider ourselves in other respects.
3 Mar 08, 17:59
TheSkeptic: Reading the Sarkar Raj thread, I wonder if we could all be a shade more considerate of filmmakers, without whose work we’d probably all go nuts out of sheer boredom. Leaving aside the anti-Satyam wing - who have, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn, probably signed an offline pact in blood to do whatever it takes to destroy this film, and are therefore out of the reach of reasonable persuasion - I’d like to re-quote Mani’s acerbic observation about popular audiences that “if a movie flops, they think they know everything, if it succeeds they think the director knows everything!” Moral: everyone can go wrong, the audiences as much as the filmmakers. Unless you’re copying some original Hollywood, Korean or South Indian film shot-by-shot, filmmaking is a creative act, and every genuinely creative effort is a leap into the unknown.
Akshay - All I said is that after Guru, Abhishek has not been able to keep the pace up … he hasnt done anything worthwhile since then to take him fwd … and its not that he was absent all the time either.
Anyways, if a poster of a building is an ideal first look to you … then no comments … D6 first poster looked like a cover illustration of a book … not a movie in any way.
As for these pics, Ash is looking just ok (agree with Sandy’s take on this) and Abhishek is just looking blank … and errr … the beard has become real ugly now.
Ramu seems to be recovering from his AAG shock … lets see if he can indeed pull himself up.
Ach: I agree with you that JBJ was a huge set-back for Abhishek, but again the initial is enough indication had the movie been liked it would’ve been a different story. And since GURU what exactly has Abhishek had?? Don’t consider LCMD as HIS movie at all…..so since GURU he’s pretty much been absent barring JBJ which was a outright flop.
Each to their own on DILLI 6, but you can’t deny that is a quiet a formidable lineup with DILLI 6, DRONA, SARKAR RAAJ and DOSTANA as well as Rathnams next…
Look by ur logic even Saawariya had indications of being a different story … but does that help in anyway? A YRF movie based purely on Abhi’s shoulder just Flopped in no time! And his appearances in Aag … was it needed? U urself had admitted that before.
LCMD was riding on Rani-Abhi pairing for publicity … it was def not something god that happened to him!
Its a different scenario when u take ur time after huge successes … Aamir after TZP can afford a year long break … but after delivering one of his high-profile flops, where has Abhi gone?
D6 is a movie that was rejected by each and every star and actor in the horizon … i need to see the movie before getting excited about it.
a flop is a flop, no two ways about it.again a movie coming from Yash Raj is always considered to be a big one unless it is something like in the line of a Kabul Express or CDI to some extent.JBJ flopping badly can only be a setback for Abhishek nomatter how big was the opening.having said that he has got some good projects in 2008 which will be more than enough to consolidate his position as a star.
“btw.. Akshay has delivered as many hits in the past 10 months that Aamir had delivered in the entire 90’s decade.”
Well, jugding purely by commercial hits, Akki is probably number one - even SRK has not managed to deliver so many hits.
But, in terms of overall ranking (and here presige and success across genre matters), it’s SRK-Aamir at the top, closely followed by Hrithik and Akshay. This scenerio is pretty much locked at the moment, at least till the time Akshay comes up with a non-comedy hit or Abhishek gets big hits with Sarkar, Dilli 6 and Drona.
Saying that SRK did sub-par films throughout the 90s, so Akki’s films should count as well isn’t a very sound argument.
First of all, keeping aside one’s personal dislike for the Yash Raj brand of films, one cannot quite compare a Dilwale Dulhaniya..or Darr or even Kuch Kuch Hota Hai to a Phir Hera Pheri, Namaste London or Bhool Bhulaiya. SRK has done way better films. Also, even if one were to hypothetically accept that there’s no qualitative difference between all these films, one has to according understand that it was really Lagaan that brought about a change in the way the industry started looking at its own films. Not too many stars or even directors were quality conscious untill then.
In any case, Akshay finds himself in an unconfortable scenerio where his sub-par films are doing well but so are the films of his rivals (Aamir, SRK) and they are ten times more risky than what he does. Just like how a single Jane Austen classic would tower over a hundred Mill & Boons, even if both brands are equally popular.
“In any case, Akshay finds himself in an unconfortable scenerio where his sub-par films are doing well but so are the films of his rivals (Aamir, SRK) and they are ten times more risky than what he does. ”
achchaaa….hmmmmmm…..!!!!
let’s see……
thik hai….!!!!!
jismein dum hoga wo to pata chal hi jaayegaaa!!!!
wait and watch….I will let media speak more on this….
Sandy: You might not have to wait too long for Akshay with Tashan around the corner and Chandni Chowk to China later on in the year! But fundamentally I disagree with you. I was saying the sort of thing you are today after NL. But I changed my mind with HB. Ultimately these consecutive successes override the prestige factor. But leaving this aside SRK has had an ‘Austen moment’ (in your terms and I shudder a bit with this analogy!) for the first time with CDI! Also using your analogy irrespective of Tashan or chandi Chowk Akshay is very unlikely to ever get a Mehra or a Rathnam or a Hirani or a VVC or what have you. So even if he had 10 hits a year he wouldn’t be able to make up this prestige deficit. I think this leads one to a rather odd conclusion! Similarly the question is whether a Hrithik has so far been able to attract the kinds of projects Abhishek has consistently. So I think one can only go so far with this sort of logic. Aamir is in a different league because he defines the agenda more than anyone else. Even this year the first time SRK had a CDI Aamir trumped him with TZP and a film that released with a monster like Welcome! Similary JA is doing decently at this point in key centers (hard to tell how far it can go) but this was a huge epic film, totally unchallenged in terms of opposition and so forth. How can one compare Aamir’s TZP achievement with this?
Leaving this aside I do think that dominating these media cycles is important. Hrithik hurt himself most by not being around, hit or flop. With Aamir it’s less of an issue as his entire career at this point is premised on being ‘different’. Abhishek also hurt himself far more with this big gap after JBJ than JBJ’s failure actually did. A top star needs 3 films every year, 2 major ones at the very least.
Getting back to the original point I do think it’s unfair to suggest that Akshay isn’t on top unless he does a Mehra! By that token why is SRK with Aamir at all? Doesn’t Aamir have an unbeatable record for years now in terms of combining the different with commercial success? Why is Hrithik with him when he couldn’t even get an MP kind of initial for JA (Rajasthan has nothing to do with it!)? At that massive print count the film brought in TZP or CDI like number in its key Bombay territory when those films had less than half the prints!
So I think one should look at the record comprehensively.
Currently I would put Aamir on top, Akshay next, SRK after this and Hrithik next followed by Abhishek. Abhishek has the most to prove in some ways but he could with the lineup he has. By the way I am looking at this from a distributor’s perspective. Akshay and SRK could be about tied, or SRK and Hrithik could be about tied. I don’t think all three could be.
As for whether one should place a Salman over Abhishek or not I don’t consider that a serious argument given Salman’s supreme inability to attract a project half-prestigious.
i feel austen moment adds feather to your repertoire but does not actually build it.
You need hits for building it….
Aamir is doing it well and so has a unique position….however off late a successive lineup of hit films was missing in his repertoire which are vital to buy the masses …..
Now that he is getting consistent hits…he is looking like a different aamir…incomparable.
Bur SRK got the wind of the situation and came up with CDI….
so he still is ahead.
moreover…each star has his/her own USP…different from the other…
one cannot say that a particular USP is better than the other if other is also delivering big time.
I like kshay but this simple fact makes me like other stars and their films…
moreover…each star has his/her own USP…different from the other…
one cannot say that a particular USP is better than the other if other is also delivering big time.
This simple fact makes me like other stars and their films…and makes me to look up at them highly.
ofcourse i have preferance but i have many more too…and then it surprises me to find that few despise certain kind of popular cinema or actor because of their biased preferance.
Satyam: First of all, even though SRK may not have been the eclectic performer you want him to be, he’s had a fair share of good films and roles in the recent past. Swades and CDI itself are good enough examples and quite easily are over and above anything that Akshay has n(ever) done!
I accede to your point on Hrithik being on par (or lower) than Akshay -though he’s clearly the more exclusive actor , with class and prestige on his side. But yes, till last year, he’s only been a rich man’s Akshay Kumar with his mass hits.
But hopefully, JA is breaking the clutter. And more importantly, there’s atleast an attempt on Hrithik’s side to try different things. Akshay is one decade too late already!
As for Tashan, this is no Akshay Kumar film alone. It’s a multistarrer with current flavours, Saif and Kareena in it. In all probability, they will be the centre of attraction at least where the publicity of the film goes. This is certainly no Dhoom 2 deal or even a Welcome kinda thing. The former was entirely tilted in favour of Hrithik while the second film had actors who are hardly in competition with Akshay commercially.
Chandni Chowk To China doesn’t look like a ‘prestige’ film from any angle and I believe the Nagesh Kukunoor film he’s doing is a rip off.
“Swades and CDI itself are good enough examples and quite easily are over and above anything that Akshay has n(ever) done!”
another opinion which i find unreasonalble as CDI was a hit and it is more important for that reason…and certainly a cut above Akshay’s film so far…but again it is my opinion and may not be the same of numerous others.
well.. don’t wanna go into a debate done a million times over here.. but would like to point out a few things..
SrK’s film in the 90’s were in no way subpar.. I mean.. what are you guys comparing them to? DDLJ, Baazigar, Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa, Dil Se, Darr, KKHH, Yes Boss, RBGM… how badly do they fare compare to the list of Salman, Aamir, Govinda or Sunny starrers?
I mean Aamir has a JJWS, an AAA and maybe a Rangeela.. and I’ll add a Sarfarosh.. but what else? … bunch of lame-ass Hollywood remakes one after another.
Salman? well he has a Khamoshi, a HDDCS, AAA and I’ll even add a HAHK.. but then what else?
And don’t even bother asking about Govinda and Sunny.
And even if you still insist that SrK’s movies were not better than those other stars, they are in now much worse either. It’s not liek SrK was doing Phir hea Heris and Welcome while Aamir was doing Lagaans.
“So even if he had 10 hits a year he wouldn’t be able to make up this prestige deficit. I think this leads one to a rather odd conclusion!”
Well, that’s my point. If other actors are getting both things ie commercial and critical success and Akshay alone isn’t, then he’s obviously a few notches lower, inspite of his numerous hits.
I’m not saying all the others are always making sonnets, but Akshay is still into limericks.
Sandy “one has to according understand that it was really Lagaan that brought about a change in the way the industry started looking at its own films. Not too many stars or even directors were quality conscious untill then…”
What was SrK trying in Dil Se then? What was Hey Raam all about? That they didn’t became the hits they were supposed to, is a different matter.. but it’s not like all of a sudden, after Lagaan, the stars start realising they need to do quality films.
Having said that, a DDLJ was the Lagaan of its time.. Even a KKHH got rave reviews from critics across the board.
Actually to be honest, I still think most people prefer a DDLJ over a Lagaan even today…. no matter how fashioable a YRF-bashing might have become.
SRK doesn’t get credit for Dil Se or Hey Ram the way Aamir does for Lagaan: those are Mani Rathnam and Kamal films first and foremost. i.e., one can get credit for a good performance, but NOT for the way the film has shaped up. Whereas Aamir will get credit for the way Lagaan shaped up (but not for the way Rang De Basanti shaped up; he will also get credit/blame for Mangal Pandey); just as SRK will get credit/blame for the way Om Shanti Om, Chalte Chalte, Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani shaped up, in a way he cannot for Veer-Zaara. With Hey Ram, he did a guest role in a film directed by one of India’s most famous actors — he didn’t make that film a quality film, nor was he in the slightest bit responsible.
Street: I think Lagaan has Oscar glory written all over it, you can’t wish that away, can you? It’s an internationally recogonised film. DDLJ is popular no doubt, maybe more than Lagaan but the latter is quite indisputably over and above just about every other film of its times in terms of sheer pretige and class!
satyam “….Similarly the question is whether a Hrithik has so far been able to attract the kinds of projects Abhishek has consistently.”
lol.. every director worth his salt.. offers a film a Hrithik first.. It’s Hrithik who turns down movie left and right.. and being ultra-choosy with projects.
and Abhi getting better choices? lol..They gave Abhishek own franchise to Hrithik when he greed to do it.. forget about others.
PS– I don’t think it can be doubted that SRK’s films were among the most prestigious 1995-2001. They were.
Equally, I don’t see why Akshay’s “genre” should be run down: first people said his grosses/initials aren’t big enough; when they became very big, now it’s the “genre.” Listen, given that Bollywood isn’t rewarding high art in any event, how can one look down on popular film x (Welcome) and rave about popular film y (Om Shanti Om)?
PPS– Khakee stands out in Akshay’s career, a meaningful film within the commercial context, and a moving role too, with imo his best comedy as well. Sandy: maybe the Kukunoor film is a rip off, but that puts him on the same terrain as Om Shanti Om and Ghajini, no?
Qalandar.. I never suggested that SrK should get credit for teh way those films shaped up.. we are talking of stars making choices on films they do. And I disagree with the notion that Stars started looking at quality films only post-Lagaan… and the Dil Se and Hey Raams are examples of that.
Sandy.. To put it bluntly. I think DDLJ is simply a better film than Lagaan. And there are many more out therw ho’d say the same than the contrary.
” Listen, given that Bollywood isn’t rewarding high art in any event, how can one look down on popular film x (Welcome) and rave about popular film y (Om Shanti Om)?”
Nobody’s raving about OSO, Q. And if Akshay is such a big star, why can’t he just prove himself with a critical hit. Hrithik had credit taken away from him since all his films until Dhoom 2, were all in-house films. Every actor has to fight these limitations…
To use your words SP, what the fuk was SRK doing in Hey Ram that was an inconsequential role in not that great a film and this was a Kamal film and no one else’s like Q bhai said.
“And even if you still insist that SrK’s movies were not better than those other stars, they are in now much worse either. It’s not liek SrK was doing Phir hea Heris and Welcome while Aamir was doing Lagaans.”
SP…I hope you have not compared…do you know that SRK’s Yes Boss was also a remake like Heyy babyy?
ofcourse you will like yess boss more…
for me i can say Heyy babyy was far better than chalte chalte or Yes Boss….
Bhool Bhulaiyaa…it was better than Don…
but let’s not compare films like this or denegrate good films…
Note-I liked Don and Yes Boss…my point is take this at the face value instead of thrusting your choice. same goes for sandy as well.
Sandy: Maybe Akshay will. His trajectory is on a marjed upswing, and he is today where he wasn’t two years ago. So let’s see if he gets a critically acclaimed hit. Maybe he won’t — but he is a huge star without any critical acclaim, just as SRK was always a huge star even when people used to say he can’t act very well, etc. Rajendra Kumar
Comment by Qalandar on 3 March 2008:
Niiiice to finally get a first look…I am expecting a better film than Sarkar, I have a good feeling about this one.
Comment by satyam on 3 March 2008:
Agreed.. I was never much of a Sarkar fan though it’s enjoyable nonetheless but I certainly expect more from this one..
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
Should be a good one to watch i guess.Expecting a better movie than Sarkar.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
This is i guess Ramu’s biggest bet.if it succeeds will do a hell lot of good for him.
Comment by Eire on 3 March 2008:
I loved Sarkar. I thought it was a well made intense drama. Of course I love the majority of mafia films or films with a mafia back drop.
I’m also hoping this film will be better than the original.
The stills blown up look great.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
Aish is looking WOW! Her hairstyle reminds me of Sridevi.
Abhi is looking intense…
If one closey looks at Abhishek’s lineup-
Sarkaar Raaj
Dilli 6
Dostaana
Drona
ManiRathnam’s next
all the above has potential to hit big…the most loose end is Drona…The direcor is the biggest strategic blunder here.
Aish-
Sarkaar Raaj
Rajni’s Robot
Manirathnam’s next
this couple really rocks.
Comment by Qalandar on 3 March 2008:
I think that still of Ash and Amitabh is awesome: the expression in her eyes is such that the whole image, with great economy, conveys what I imagine to be her character’s “new world” corporate ishtyle contempt for the “old school” patriarch’s ways…
Comment by Qalandar on 3 March 2008:
Yes Nitesh. And, while I certainly hope all these films are successful, at a minimum I’ll say that they mostly seem to have the potential for strong roles (thinking in particular of Dilli-6, Sarkar Raj, and Rathnam’s next; and, I have a good feeling about Drona too).
Comment by Julie on 3 March 2008:
Ash really looks wow. This movie will work and big. Ash has started lokking like a princess these days. I saw a fews clippings of her of JA and she looks like Rani Padmini more than Rani Jodha. Rani Padmini incidentally was one of the most beautiful and regal looking queens in time immemorial.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
On paper Abhishek has got the best movies,better than the likes of Hrithik,SRK and Akshay lined up in the coming months which will be benificial for him from both commercial and critical point of view.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
agree Som….
Hrithik’s lineup-
Anurag Basu’s next
Krrish 2
SRK’s lineup-
Rab ne bana di jodi
Khan
Don 2
Salman’s lineup-
Main Yuvraaj
God tussi gr8 ho
Pokkhiri
Akshay’s lineup(this year)-
Tashan
Chandni chowk to China
Singh is kinng
8 by 10
Kambakth ishq
Ranbir’s lineup-
Siddhart anand’s next
Raj Kumar Santoshi’s next
Aamir Khan’s next
Aamir’s lineup-
Ghajini
Shahid’s lineup-
Ken ghosh’s next
Aziz Mirza’s next with Vidya balan
Saif’s lineup-
Tashan
Kunal kohli’s next with Rani
Agent Vinod
Comment by jayshah on 3 March 2008:
Aamir also has Hirani’s next
I think it’s a tie between Abhishek & Akshay Kumar.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
IMO…going by the banner and no of films die to release…the following actors can be ranked-
1. Abhishek
2. SRK
3. Saif
4. Akshay
5. Salman
6. Aamir
7. Hrithik
8. Shahid
however going by the current position and adv…rankings(bsed on the types of movies in hand) become-
1. Akshay (on a roll)
2. Abhishek
3. Salman
4. SRK
5. Aamir
6. Hrithik
7. Saif
Comment by Ravi on 3 March 2008:
I do hope he makes it better than Sarkar. I was really disappointed by Sarkar that could have been made lot better.
I hope that RGV does not relegate Bachchan to the background and he has an equally important role but somehow I have the feeling that this will be showcasing Abhi and Ash which would be very disappointing me as Bachchan can kill in these kind of roles and watching “American Gangster” this weekend just reiterated the fact what a powerhouse “Bachchan” is.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
Nitesh: Akshay has got the best projects purely from commercial point of view, not sure of critical success.Abhishek has got the right blend of movies which will do good commercially and critically.as far as SRK is concerned his movie with Karan excites the most, could well surprise us.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
“I think it’s a tie between Abhishek & Akshay Kumar.”
jay…we are on the same line.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
Som, agree with you on Akshay, Abhi and SRK.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
Som, agree with you on Akshay, Abhi and SRK.
If you purely go by the merits of films in hand…then Akshay is at No 4….
but if you include his current + factor…he is with Abhi together….
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
Aamir’s lineup-
Ghajini
Raju Hirani’s next…
i will now put Aamir with SRK now.
Comment by Ravi on 3 March 2008:
I would have hoped someone from the fairer sex would have excited you Som dear than a pairing of KJO and SRK.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
“If you purely go by the merits of films in hand…then Akshay is at No 4″
yeah, that was my main concern, evaluated from sheer quality point of view.i guess this could be the films of top stars which could do well commercially and critically:
Abhishek:
Sarkarraaj
Dilli6
Mani’s next
Akshay:
8 BY 10
Aamir:
Hirani’s next
Ghajni could be but not sure
Hrithik:
Anurag Basu’s next
SRK:
Khan
Comment by jayshah on 3 March 2008:
‘which could do well commercially and commercially’
Sounds like the difference between the Filmfare popular award and filmfare critics award….nothing!
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
“I would have hoped someone from the fairer sex would have excited you Som dear than a pairing of KJO and SRK.”
Ravi bhai: i am in the minority who did like KANK.it was definitely a brave attempt from Karan, so i hope he does a much better job in KHAN than what he did with KANK.just becoz he is now willing to experiment without really fearing to loose, i would give him the benifit of doubt.
Comment by Jeet on 3 March 2008:
Ash looks gorgeous in the photos…SR will probably have less action than Sarkar. For me the highlight of the movie was AB Jr eliminating one baddie after the other.
I know its wishful thinking but would have loved to see SRK play a dark, suave Don in this movie squaring off against the bachchans (something like Chak De meets RGV).
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
I honestly don’t much of a distinction between an Aag and a Sarkar.. in both films all we saw was long close-ups of the lead actors staring into the camera with some heavy annoyingly loud background music, and then there’d be shots of the supporting actors in teh scene one by one with teh strangest of camera angles though making their own weird poses.. lol.. and after some scarily long dead silences by the actors , the bg music is lowered slightly to allow teh actor to muster out his punch-line to start his dialogue.. and then there’s another punch-line at the end the dialogues (whther it’s one person doing it or more than in some kind of altercation) towards the end of the scene.. but ofcourse teh scne ends again with loudening of the annoying bg music and having either the actors walk their “cool” walk or else another close-up like the start of the scene.
anyways.. aag ends up looking a lot worse coz there’s the automatic comparsion with Sholay, perhaps in one’s unconscious mind if not the conscious one.
Comment by Ravi on 3 March 2008:
You make a lot of Sense SP, when you cut out the profanity so really hope to see more of that from you.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
As for actors’ forthcoming films.. dunno much about any..haven’t kept a track… though Aamir is always inetesting.. his last 4-5 films been way better than anoy other lead actor’s film in the same time frame.. but on paper as of now.. I got mixed feelings. Ghajini is aremake of a South film (how many non-remakes does Aamir have in total in his career).. and I don’t think much of them South films.. Dunno of a single South film (dubbed) that I liked.. and don’t even ask about the remake ones.
And as for his Hirani film.. well.. it’s a film that SrK turned down.. again I have mixed thoughts on that one.
But at the end of the day, with Aamir one is assured of the movie being good no matter who is the director (heck I even loved Fanaa).. You see a Mela only once in a decade.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
Among the future line-up for all the stars, Shahid i feel is going to the dark horse here … Abhi and Akshay are the more prolific ones here … but that doesnt neccessarily mean prolific success.
On the other hand, the power trio of SRK, Aamir and Hrithik are concentrating in a very few projs … chances are more that each of those are going to be successful in a big way.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
“yeah, that was my main concern, evaluated from sheer quality point of view.”
Som…let me taken an example from physics to expalin you something…
momentum = mass * velocity
In the context of films; mass= quality, velocity = hits
a star needs to have momentum…
at present the velocity of Akshay and SRK is the highest….
looking at the future, srk has less quantitative velocity but then he compensates it with mass..
talking about akshay….he is compensating mass with velocity…thus ensuring that his momentum is max always…
ofcourse he runs a danger if he loses velocity…
but for now…he is unstoppable because he has lept ahead because of his sheer momentum.
so when you talk about quality…you have to see the context…
velocity is very important to take an object forward…
with every hit, velocity increases..which we call acceleration…
so it becomes mass * acceleration = Force…
so if Akshay keep on giving hit after hits…he will soon hit top acceleration and will zoom ahead even if people hace project of better mass (quality) but not necessarily equally good velocity.
Comment by henry on 3 March 2008:
SP thats the best damn description of the piece of sh!t that is Sarkar.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
hey.. why are these pics being posted again and again.. I’m sure satyam alone has posted them more than once… not to mention the fact that in this thread alone each of the two been posted twice with different resolution. what point u tryin to prove.. ?
Comment by jayshah on 3 March 2008:
‘mass * acceleration = Force’
As acceleration increases, the mass falls in this equation taking force as fixed. I think you need to talk about force now. Soon Akshay will be moving the moon I think
May the force be with you Akshay!
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
Nitesh: i said about the movies that will please both the critics and the paying public.Akshay could well deliver hits after hits and become NO 1, i dont deny that, but if someone like Abhishek comes up with Sarkarraaj, Dilli6 and Mani’s next which all become prestige hits, it is him who gains the maximum momentum IMO.every actor wants to have success like TZP or CDI or RDB.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
I dunno why Nitesh been trying so hard to make a case for Akshay being on a roll at teh Bo office and others stars are not.. forget about being the only one having a good run or teh only one with back-to-back hits, the others not only match his run but some have actually had it a lot better.
And 2007 was a good year for him.. but didn’t 2006 featured in some of the biggest BO disapointments of that year - JeM, Family and Humko Deewana Kar Gaye.
(And I think there was one Jeeva Saathi too.. but maybe that’s a long-in-the-making film.. or had him in a tiny role.. though it could be a full-fledged lead role by akki.. anyways I never seen it)
But yeah.. Akki last 4 hits get total blown up by SrK and Hrithik’s last four hits.. and even Aamir has had as good run as Akshay, even though every film of his been a dozen times more risky than any of akshay hits in the same time period.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
agree with your last pint som…
jay..LOL
Ach…i know you like Hrithik….so must add that Hrithik has huge potential and with movies like JA…he will one day occupy Aamir’s place…
Abhishek on the other hand looks a lambi race ka ghoda….has tremendous potential (not as much as Hrithik) but can beat Hrithik by giving more hits in good projects.
SP…rest assured SRK will not be replaced by anyone…infact i think he should become a full fledged producer now and cast Akshay, Hrithik and Aamir in his films and count dollars.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
SP…now that you are on Akshay…please let me add…
Akshay had 4 hits in 1 year…that makes a difference…
it is like you having 4 birthdays…:)
of course SRK had two big ones…so i am not denying that…
infact i never say that Akshay is No 1…he is far from it…
but the way he is going he may become closer …though replacing SRK at this stage is like replacing an elaphant from its ass.
Comment by JustaFan on 3 March 2008:
Of all the products that Abishekh endorses, one you will never see him do is GILLETTE.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
but i must add…as an Akshay fan…i think i am enjoying the most…
his next is round the corner…looks big
has given 5 back to back hits…
has emerged big time…
so it is sunshine time.
Comment by jayshah on 3 March 2008:
Nitesh good last comment. You made all fans happy now. Now tell me what happens if Akshay’s force is fixed, the acceleration increases and his mass decreases. This means he is not gaining momentum ! Whats happened now. He’d be like a bullet I guess. Or someone throwing a marble at me. He needs to increase his mass to compensate for this.
JustaFan…he can always do the ‘before’ part of the add in Gillete!!!!
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
SP - very insightful posts indeed.
As i have said before, ur posts makes lots of sense and are substantial.
Comment by JustaFan on 3 March 2008:
what was Abishekh’s last movie in which he was completely clean shaved for the entire movie? DHOOM or maybe DUS?
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
ach…i think you did not read my comment…
kabhi mere liye bhi kuch meetha bol lo bhai..
Comment by JustaFan on 3 March 2008:
Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t remember Amitabh with a natural beard in any of his movies until he did Mohabbatein when he was ..what 58? I think someone has told Junior B that he looks more manly with a beard.
come to think of it….Junior B did have a clean shave in GURU.
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
“Now tell me what happens if Akshay’s force is fixed, the acceleration increases and his mass decreases. This means he is not gaining momentum ! Whats happened now. He’d be like a bullet I guess. Or someone throwing a marble at me. He needs to increase his mass to compensate for this”
jay…you are assuming that mass is decreasing…which on the contrary is increasing….what do you say now?
wud have loved to go on with this..but have a presentation tommorrow and have to burn some midnight oil for that..so see you 2mmorrow
BTW…nice to know that someone knows physics here
Comment by Nitesh on 3 March 2008:
but i must add…as an Akshay fan…i think i am enjoying the most…
his next is round the corner…looks big
has given 5 back to back hits…
has emerged big time…
so it is sunshine time 4 all Akki fan
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
well.. the beard really helps Abhishek hide most of the expresion-less face (not to mention ugly as well)..
Comment by jayshah on 3 March 2008:
I tried to know it but found it very hard. To many formulae all interlinked, all depending on each other. But good work. Think you made a case, but I would say as Akshay’s velocity increases, his mass falls. It is simply impossible to get good quality projects and churn it out at regular intervals. its usually the poor quality stuff that comes out in quick succession and the quality stuff one has to wait for. So in that case momentum really depends on how big the mass is vs rate of velocity. I would put SRK’s year > Akshay Kumar’s year. His velocity was less, but his mass was greater. Overall momentum carried through is greater.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
Street: responding to your last comment on Akshay,i think we are forgeting both Krrish and D2 had the advantage of being associated with big banners .Akshay still has not the opportunity to work with the big banners.2008 will be different as he will have Tashan with Yash Raj which has everything going in its favour to be a record grosser.if it certainly becomes one, there is no point in saying Akshay’s movies cant be as big as any HR or SRK movie.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
Nitesh - You dont need to keep pushing Akshay … Akshay has delivered and proved to everyone where he currently stands in the industry … If he can continue the string of Hits this year, only sky is the limit for him.
As for SRK, he has silenced all his detractors with a critically acclaimed Blockbuster CDI and a commercial Blockbuster hom,e production in OSO.
Aamir has made a statement with good acting and brilliant direction taking his debut directorial project to Blockbuster level.
With JA, Hrithik has made a statement that he is on his way to become an unique combination of SRK/Aamir of his generation.
Abhishek has unfortunately lost a lot of ground. He still has a lot to prove to be among the top bracket, but his coming projects has the potential to boost his status.
Saif hasnt been able to take any further steps after Omkara. Even if Race/Tashan works well, Akki will walk away with the credit.
Shahid to me is THE dark horse … he has turned out to be a good and sincere actor and seems determined to prove his worth.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
And not to forget, Shahid’s last two movies were hugely successful and critics had universally liked his acting.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
“…now that you are on Akshay…please let me add…
Akshay had 4 hits in 1 year…that makes a difference…”
It’s about having back-to-back hits.. the fact that it comes in one year or two years doesn’t make much of a difference. To think of it.. SrK 4 hits came within 15 months and Akshay’s did within 10 months. It’s not that huge of a difference there.
Comment by Qalandar on 3 March 2008:
Not sure I follow: Akshay’s Hey Baby was in the same range as DON and KANK, and Bhool Bhulaiya managed 40 crores even though he isn’t in half the film. Welcome was < Om Shanti Om, but > Chak De India, even though Welcome was released with competition from Taare Zameen Par. It was said on NG that Jaaneman knocked off crores from Don’s opening, so by the same yardstick, absent TZP, Welcome might well have matched Om Shanti Om.
Second, it’s the OPENING that testifies to star power, not the final gross (recognizing this is a generalization, but still will serve for this discussion): and on that front, Akshay’s graph has shown a very marked upward swing: Welcome opened — despite TZP competition — within a few crores of Om Shanti Om, and at Dhoom 2 level (if latter was released a year previously, it also did not face competition). And even Hey Baby and Bhool Bhulaiya opened > Chak De India, Taare Zameen Par (if the latter had a genre disadvantage, note that they were also the heros’ first films in a while, as opposed to akshay’s once-in-3-months deal).
I’m not saying Akshay is #1. What I am saying is that the debate needs to be framed fairly.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
what Akshay lacks is some critical successes.i believe if SRK and Aamir or for that matter Hrithik keep on doing movies like OSO,Fanaa and D2 respectively, big grossers wont be a problem for them IMO.whether you agree or not, thesedays if someone manages to get prestige hits i.e a perfect blend of critical and commercial success, it cant get bigger than this.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
starnotinthe making.. I am not taking away anything from Akshay. and I a, probabaly teh only on teh forum who puts Akshay at heels with Aamir at teh star rankings… I was simply reminding Nitesh (and some others here) that apart Abhishek almost every other major star is on a roll and delivering a good run of hits.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
CDI inspite of its theme and genre made much more than a commercial masala comedies of HB/BB. Also the opening wasnt much less than thses Akki genre films!
And TZP was never meant to open well with its genre disadvantage and Aamir in a supporting act. But still it grossed more than HB/BB/NL!
The likes of TZP/CDI were actully much more successful than Welcome/BB/HB and what not mindless masala comedies thats Akki’s only strong point till now.
No one can ignore Akki’s Hits, but the argument needs to be fair here too.
Comment by Tango on 3 March 2008:
Yes SP, I support you on that. Over the years you have given Akshay his due, even when his neo fans (post welcome second week, after cutting short week 1 by 5-6 crores), were putting him down, a couple of years back.
Comment by rks on 3 March 2008:
“Som…let me taken an example from physics to expalin you something…
momentum = mass * velocity
In the context of films; mass= quality, velocity = hits”
LOL Nitesh. Even definition of prestige changes with time. Probably we need to go into Einsteinian domain from Newtonian to encompass all the variables.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
“Second, it’s the OPENING that testifies to star power, not the final gross”
Qalnadar: that is true to some extent,but we have to take into consideration the genre factor also.most of the Akshay’s movies that took big openings were all the comedy ones, his strongest genre.NL and JM which were not the usual Akshay’s movies did open poorly.Its just not applicable to Akshay, every stars be it SRK or Aamir or Hrithik all get affected by the genre limitations.at one hand when srk’s OSO took the biggest opening, CDI started on a slow note.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
I agree with SP on almost all top stars having a good run. A quick look at the recent movies:
SRK:
- OSO
- CDI
- DON
- KANK
Aamir:
- TZP
- Fanaa
- RDB
Hrithik:
- JA (verdict still not out but its already a succes now)
- Dhoom 2
- Krrish
Akshay:
- Welcome
- BB
- HB
- NL
Abhi was been having too frequent disasters to propel himself into this echelon … his only solo release in 2006 was a disaster (UJ) … his most anticipated commercial venture with YRF was a Flop. Thats ignoring the blushes caused in D2 and the LCMD fiasco.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
ok.. Qalandar.. here are the numbers for you..
NL made 37 cr .. while KANK is a 48 cr grosser. Half the film? well half the initial too.. and the difference between the gross of the two films is a significant one as well. Not to mention that KANK’s major returns actually come from the overseas market, the audience the film was actually pitched to. And in India, maybe KANK is not a bigger hit than NL was, but certainly not any smaller either. Overeas, don’t even bother asking.. no need to embarass yourself there.
Then there’s Don.. which made 51 cr… as much as Heyy Baby made. I’m not even going to bother talking about how Don was a thriller was SrK’s first scuess in the genre in more than a decade.. while HeyBaby was yet another run-of-the-mill for him. Anyways.. numbers on the face value alone again match.. even if Don doesn’t surpass it.
Then.. CDI is a 65 cr grosser while only 54.. Forget everything else about the movies’c omparison.. when a CDI beats out a BB on the raw numbers alone.. then end of story. I’d be really surrprised if one person on this earth could make a case for the latter being more commendable a success.
And then we have OSO’s 87 cr gross vs 75 cr. That’s a 12 cr difference right there.
Unless ofcourse you take IBOS or jay, and consider CDI a hit becasue of tax exemption and OSO only an “earner” , SrK’s run is aso good if not better than Akshay’s current run at the BO.. and that’s speaking of the numbers alone. When you talk of the other factors, it’s not even close.
Comment by Ravi on 3 March 2008:
Ach bhai, Abhi did have Guru in 2006.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
“…I’m not saying Akshay is #1. What I am saying is that the debate needs to be framed fairly.”
Between SrK and Akshay, if there ever was a debate, then that would mean Akshay had well surpassed the like of Aamirs when it came to BO power.
Comment by Ravi on 3 March 2008:
Sorry meant to say had Guru in 2007.
Comment by Qalandar on 3 March 2008:
Re: “NL made 37 cr .. while KANK is a 48 cr grosser. Half the film? well half the initial too…”
No, the “half the film” reference was to Bhool Bhulaiya, not to Namaste London.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
btw.. Akshay has delivered as many hits in the past 10 months that Aamir had delivered in the entire 90’s decade.
Comment by Eire on 3 March 2008:
Akshay, Abhishek, Aamir, SRK, Salman, etc all have very good films coming up. They are all doing very well. There is enough room in the industry for everyone.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 3 March 2008:
I do always have a laugh at these SrK-haters, the way they change teh game when different stars are compared to SrK. Teh arugument that some of you guys are using to propel Akshay over SrK (or close to him), will blow out every SrK/Aamir BO debate of yors on this very forum.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
well, Ravi bhai, the momentum gained by Guru was dampened quite a bit after JBJ failure, his unwanted appearance in the mother-of-all disaster AAG .. then then the blushes of LCMD.
btw, whats the point of posting the pics so many times?
The beard does help the serious look … but abhi’s eyes are too expressionless and blank imo.
Comment by Eire on 3 March 2008:
Abhishek also had an appearance in OSO which was a blockbuster. That had no effect on his status. In the same vein Aag and LCMD had no real bearing on Abhishek’s status. Guest roles in hit or flop films don’t count. Abhishek had only two real films last year which were: Guru and JBJ.
Guru was a critical acclaimed film that went on to become a hit film. JBJ failed at box office. But he still had at least one hit film last year. Abhishek actually fared well in 2007. He has potential with his films in 2008, etc. to continue to do well. Abhishek is a versatile actor with some good projects. He along with the other actors are doing well. Not only do the actor’s win but also the different fanbases win because they have so many different films to choose from. This year looks like it will have lots of variety.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
LCMD wasn’t a one song/dance appearance like Aag … the much hyped dad-son item number of Aag was well publicized … and was a equally big disappointment.
Guru moment is long gone … no steps fwd since then .. and his future films are getting postponed too.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
I agree with Eire here.Abhishek had 2 relases last year, Guru clicked JBJ not which was a set back considering it came from Yash Raj.this year he has got variety of films, so should do very well IMO.
Comment by Tango on 3 March 2008:
A landmark example was just recent.
BOI was accused of tryin to put doewn Munnabhai, but IBOS turned out lowe. But last year IBOs cut down Shootout by about 10 cr, buth there was astoic silence when I pointed it out.
This year the Hrithik hater BOI ( allegedly an SRK financed site) which cut down the Krrish total ( but not D;2 as it had the highest for the movie that also had Abhi) is giving JA its due ( to SRK’s biggest competetitor), to is par kuch nahi.
Geat a life jokers. soon your own siblings will not take you seriously.
Comment by sandy on 3 March 2008:
Abhishek looks fine to me here but I think Ramu has got Ash’s look completely wrong . This is the problem with directors portraying strong, individualistic career women - they have to necessarily take on a no frills look with combed-back hair and business suits and what have you. Basically, they have to denounce some of their feminity and take on a more masculine approach to dressing even. Madhur Bandarkar made the same mistake in Corporate.
Why should a woman being a corporate czarina and retaining her feminine charms/ dressing be mutually exclusive?
Comment by jayshah on 3 March 2008:
‘a no frills look with combed-back hair and business suits and what have you’
She looks great IMO. And very sexy even with the hair tied back. In fact more so. All she needs is some nice glasses.
Comment by jayshah on 3 March 2008:
Abhishek on the other looks like he went to the tanning shop. I guess its the camera angle.
Comment by NyKavi on 3 March 2008:
Did Abhishek get a case of chickenpox or something in the last few years due to which he constantly prefers to keep a beard for hiding the freckles?
In Guru, some of the closeup shots did reveal lots of freckles on his face. I guess he would not want to end up looking like Om Puri.
Comment by akshay shah on 3 March 2008:
Aweosme pics..love the last pic of Abhishek!!!!! Ramu is BACK..thats for sure…
As for things being posted several times..we have a number of things on NG posted OVER and over again..so why not this:)? From memory there was ONE pic earlier, and now this which has more pics…
Abhisheks line up rocks….Aamir’s lineup is better….Anyone who loses out on Hirani’s film is either a moron…or wait..a moron:)
A.Shah
Comment by akshay shah on 3 March 2008:
“Guru moment is long gone … no steps fwd since then .. and his future films are getting postponed too.”—Lets see after DILLI 6 and SARKAR RAAJ! Too early to say…
Comment by akshay shah on 3 March 2008:
If Ramu is smart he will advertise this as “Indias Most Powerful Family”;)..Real life imitating reel life!
Comment by akshay shah on 3 March 2008:
And yes..insecurities and years are risiong again..first the kick ass DILLI 6 poster and now this…
Comment by vikschshkr on 3 March 2008:
I am hoping Ramu has gone back to his basics…and stripped off his attitude etc. that he had…and makes a decent movie…
I just hope he changes the person who gave background music in the earlier Sarkaar…It was horrible in that movie…Amitabh, Abhishek, Aishwarya and rest of the cast will do the rest to make this movie a decent experience.
And if he does advertise it as “India’s most powerful family”…It just means that Mr. Ram ‘Aag’ Gopal Varma is still on his way down…I hope he’s not as stupid as that…
Comment by akshay shah on 3 March 2008:
vikschskr: I think you’ll be surprised with SARKAR RAAJ!
Comment by vikschshkr on 3 March 2008:
I do hope so Akshay. Keeping my fingers crossed. It’s just that RGV has disappointed me so many times. I hope I am pleasantly surprised.
Comment by Jesse on 3 March 2008:
Although I do agree with Sandy, that Ash’s look is devoid of her femininity I still quite like Ash’s look. I expect her to have a very strong role here, and I hope Sarkar Raaj turns out better then the first part.
Comment by Jesse on 3 March 2008:
Some thoughts from The Skeptic (in reverse order):
3 Mar 08, 18:40
TheSkeptic: All this is to say that much as audiences and critics would like filmgoing to be as predictably rewarding as withdrawing money from an ATM (though, with the global economic climate being what is, today even that is not so certain!), with some filmmakers, at least, no such guarantees will ever be on offer. After Daud, I would have expected most viewers to cotton to this fact, but to hark back to Mani’s words, audiences since then have slipped back into thinking Varma “knows” everything. Now after Aag, the same audiences think that THEY know everything, and that Varma is an insect to be crushed under one’s foot. I’m suggesting that both positions are wrong.
3 Mar 08, 18:28
TheSkeptic: From there the missteps quickly multiplied. The “look” of the film, in an attempt to be as ahead of today’s films as Sholay was in relation to the films of its era, erred, I think, in homing in on a variety of distorting lenses and angles, which lend the film a forbiddingly ugly feel, which is then further compounded by a sickly-green DI job. DI can be a powerful tool, as is evident from the rich, sepia hues of Sarkar, but more often can result in a dull and unrelenting monochromaticism that tires the eye and mind. To my mind, Varma goes wrong with both the blue-grey tints of Nishabd as well as the greens of Aag. Why exactly is this so would take a lot of thinking to grasp. After all, Gore Verbinski uses a similar tint on The Ring - in fact this sort of post-production color manipulation is de rigueur for most Hollywood films.
3 Mar 08, 18:11
TheSkeptic: Aag was Varma’s most bedeviled project, with actors dancing in and out, Sasha moving all heaven and earth to frustrate Varma’s intentions, and the sheer audience animus that the idea of a Sholay remake seems to have provoked - with everyone preferring their favorite stars as Veeru, Jai, Basanti etc. And the concept itself comes with some insuperable difficulties - how to “urbanize” Sholay, yet stay clear of the been-there, done-that Mumbai gangster genre?
3 Mar 08, 18:05
TheSkeptic: Tearing filmmakers and sometimes actors into tiny little pieces and bloodily muching on these pieces is our modern form of cheering at lions devouring Christians in Roman times, or the adult equivalent to chidlren plucking the wings off dragonflies and butterflies - the sort of cruelty that we cannot do without, apparently, however sophisticated we consider ourselves in other respects.
3 Mar 08, 17:59
TheSkeptic: Reading the Sarkar Raj thread, I wonder if we could all be a shade more considerate of filmmakers, without whose work we’d probably all go nuts out of sheer boredom. Leaving aside the anti-Satyam wing - who have, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn, probably signed an offline pact in blood to do whatever it takes to destroy this film, and are therefore out of the reach of reasonable persuasion - I’d like to re-quote Mani’s acerbic observation about popular audiences that “if a movie flops, they think they know everything, if it succeeds they think the director knows everything!” Moral: everyone can go wrong, the audiences as much as the filmmakers. Unless you’re copying some original Hollywood, Korean or South Indian film shot-by-shot, filmmaking is a creative act, and every genuinely creative effort is a leap into the unknown.
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
Akshay - All I said is that after Guru, Abhishek has not been able to keep the pace up … he hasnt done anything worthwhile since then to take him fwd … and its not that he was absent all the time either.
Anyways, if a poster of a building is an ideal first look to you … then no comments … D6 first poster looked like a cover illustration of a book … not a movie in any way.
As for these pics, Ash is looking just ok (agree with Sandy’s take on this) and Abhishek is just looking blank … and errr … the beard has become real ugly now.
Ramu seems to be recovering from his AAG shock … lets see if he can indeed pull himself up.
Comment by akshay shah on 3 March 2008:
Ach: I agree with you that JBJ was a huge set-back for Abhishek, but again the initial is enough indication had the movie been liked it would’ve been a different story. And since GURU what exactly has Abhishek had?? Don’t consider LCMD as HIS movie at all…..so since GURU he’s pretty much been absent barring JBJ which was a outright flop.
Each to their own on DILLI 6, but you can’t deny that is a quiet a formidable lineup with DILLI 6, DRONA, SARKAR RAAJ and DOSTANA as well as Rathnams next…
A.Shah
Comment by Achilles on 3 March 2008:
Look by ur logic even Saawariya had indications of being a different story … but does that help in anyway? A YRF movie based purely on Abhi’s shoulder just Flopped in no time! And his appearances in Aag … was it needed? U urself had admitted that before.
LCMD was riding on Rani-Abhi pairing for publicity … it was def not something god that happened to him!
Its a different scenario when u take ur time after huge successes … Aamir after TZP can afford a year long break … but after delivering one of his high-profile flops, where has Abhi gone?
D6 is a movie that was rejected by each and every star and actor in the horizon … i need to see the movie before getting excited about it.
Comment by starnotinthemaking on 3 March 2008:
a flop is a flop, no two ways about it.again a movie coming from Yash Raj is always considered to be a big one unless it is something like in the line of a Kabul Express or CDI to some extent.JBJ flopping badly can only be a setback for Abhishek nomatter how big was the opening.having said that he has got some good projects in 2008 which will be more than enough to consolidate his position as a star.
Comment by sandy on 4 March 2008:
“btw.. Akshay has delivered as many hits in the past 10 months that Aamir had delivered in the entire 90’s decade.”
Well, jugding purely by commercial hits, Akki is probably number one - even SRK has not managed to deliver so many hits.
But, in terms of overall ranking (and here presige and success across genre matters), it’s SRK-Aamir at the top, closely followed by Hrithik and Akshay. This scenerio is pretty much locked at the moment, at least till the time Akshay comes up with a non-comedy hit or Abhishek gets big hits with Sarkar, Dilli 6 and Drona.
Saying that SRK did sub-par films throughout the 90s, so Akki’s films should count as well isn’t a very sound argument.
First of all, keeping aside one’s personal dislike for the Yash Raj brand of films, one cannot quite compare a Dilwale Dulhaniya..or Darr or even Kuch Kuch Hota Hai to a Phir Hera Pheri, Namaste London or Bhool Bhulaiya. SRK has done way better films. Also, even if one were to hypothetically accept that there’s no qualitative difference between all these films, one has to according understand that it was really Lagaan that brought about a change in the way the industry started looking at its own films. Not too many stars or even directors were quality conscious untill then.
In any case, Akshay finds himself in an unconfortable scenerio where his sub-par films are doing well but so are the films of his rivals (Aamir, SRK) and they are ten times more risky than what he does. Just like how a single Jane Austen classic would tower over a hundred Mill & Boons, even if both brands are equally popular.
Comment by Achilles on 4 March 2008:
“Just like how a single Jane Austen classic would tower over a hundred Mill & Boons, even if both brands are equally popular.”
Awesome! This is the quote of the day!
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
“In any case, Akshay finds himself in an unconfortable scenerio where his sub-par films are doing well but so are the films of his rivals (Aamir, SRK) and they are ten times more risky than what he does. ”
achchaaa….hmmmmmm…..!!!!
let’s see……
thik hai….!!!!!
jismein dum hoga wo to pata chal hi jaayegaaa!!!!
wait and watch….I will let media speak more on this….
Comment by satyam on 4 March 2008:
Sandy: You might not have to wait too long for Akshay with Tashan around the corner and Chandni Chowk to China later on in the year! But fundamentally I disagree with you. I was saying the sort of thing you are today after NL. But I changed my mind with HB. Ultimately these consecutive successes override the prestige factor. But leaving this aside SRK has had an ‘Austen moment’ (in your terms and I shudder a bit with this analogy!) for the first time with CDI! Also using your analogy irrespective of Tashan or chandi Chowk Akshay is very unlikely to ever get a Mehra or a Rathnam or a Hirani or a VVC or what have you. So even if he had 10 hits a year he wouldn’t be able to make up this prestige deficit. I think this leads one to a rather odd conclusion! Similarly the question is whether a Hrithik has so far been able to attract the kinds of projects Abhishek has consistently. So I think one can only go so far with this sort of logic. Aamir is in a different league because he defines the agenda more than anyone else. Even this year the first time SRK had a CDI Aamir trumped him with TZP and a film that released with a monster like Welcome! Similary JA is doing decently at this point in key centers (hard to tell how far it can go) but this was a huge epic film, totally unchallenged in terms of opposition and so forth. How can one compare Aamir’s TZP achievement with this?
Leaving this aside I do think that dominating these media cycles is important. Hrithik hurt himself most by not being around, hit or flop. With Aamir it’s less of an issue as his entire career at this point is premised on being ‘different’. Abhishek also hurt himself far more with this big gap after JBJ than JBJ’s failure actually did. A top star needs 3 films every year, 2 major ones at the very least.
Getting back to the original point I do think it’s unfair to suggest that Akshay isn’t on top unless he does a Mehra! By that token why is SRK with Aamir at all? Doesn’t Aamir have an unbeatable record for years now in terms of combining the different with commercial success? Why is Hrithik with him when he couldn’t even get an MP kind of initial for JA (Rajasthan has nothing to do with it!)? At that massive print count the film brought in TZP or CDI like number in its key Bombay territory when those films had less than half the prints!
So I think one should look at the record comprehensively.
Currently I would put Aamir on top, Akshay next, SRK after this and Hrithik next followed by Abhishek. Abhishek has the most to prove in some ways but he could with the lineup he has. By the way I am looking at this from a distributor’s perspective. Akshay and SRK could be about tied, or SRK and Hrithik could be about tied. I don’t think all three could be.
As for whether one should place a Salman over Abhishek or not I don’t consider that a serious argument given Salman’s supreme inability to attract a project half-prestigious.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
satyam..
good analysis…
because you balance many things unlike others who have a rather narrow and focussed opinion.
I am sure people will raise many a eyebrows as you try to unraffle many feathers that they have tried to collect for years to suit their liking.
Yesterday i said that going by the lineup of films, Abhishek surely tops.
On Salman, i like him and like Aamir, i feel that he has grown beyond comparisions.
He has the uncanny knack of delivering huge hits….lacks consistancy but when effective delivers big time.
On Abhishek…many on NG find him unworthy when you talk of big stars…
IMO…he is still up there and excites me as a cinema goer as he has series of exciting films…
mind you…not one or two good films but a series of good films…that’s make a difference.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
For th Austen momnet…
who had it before???
SRK…no….but he still ruled…
i feel austen moment adds feather to your repertoire but does not actually build it.
You need hits for building it….
Aamir is doing it well and so has a unique position….however off late a successive lineup of hit films was missing in his repertoire which are vital to buy the masses …..
Now that he is getting consistent hits…he is looking like a different aamir…incomparable.
Bur SRK got the wind of the situation and came up with CDI….
so he still is ahead.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
moreover…each star has his/her own USP…different from the other…
one cannot say that a particular USP is better than the other if other is also delivering big time.
I like kshay but this simple fact makes me like other stars and their films…
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
moreover…each star has his/her own USP…different from the other…
one cannot say that a particular USP is better than the other if other is also delivering big time.
This simple fact makes me like other stars and their films…and makes me to look up at them highly.
ofcourse i have preferance but i have many more too…and then it surprises me to find that few despise certain kind of popular cinema or actor because of their biased preferance.
Comment by sandy on 4 March 2008:
Satyam: First of all, even though SRK may not have been the eclectic performer you want him to be, he’s had a fair share of good films and roles in the recent past. Swades and CDI itself are good enough examples and quite easily are over and above anything that Akshay has n(ever) done!
I accede to your point on Hrithik being on par (or lower) than Akshay -though he’s clearly the more exclusive actor , with class and prestige on his side. But yes, till last year, he’s only been a rich man’s Akshay Kumar with his mass hits.
But hopefully, JA is breaking the clutter. And more importantly, there’s atleast an attempt on Hrithik’s side to try different things. Akshay is one decade too late already!
As for Tashan, this is no Akshay Kumar film alone. It’s a multistarrer with current flavours, Saif and Kareena in it. In all probability, they will be the centre of attraction at least where the publicity of the film goes. This is certainly no Dhoom 2 deal or even a Welcome kinda thing. The former was entirely tilted in favour of Hrithik while the second film had actors who are hardly in competition with Akshay commercially.
Chandni Chowk To China doesn’t look like a ‘prestige’ film from any angle and I believe the Nagesh Kukunoor film he’s doing is a rip off.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
jay…i hope you are coming in defense for those few again.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
“Chandni Chowk To China doesn’t look like a ‘prestige’ film from any angle and I believe the Nagesh Kukunoor film he’s doing is a rip off.”
I hope this is a personal opinion.
as i find it absolutely crap, untrusworthy and biased.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
“This(Tashan) is certainly no Dhoom 2 deal or even a Welcome kinda thing (for Akshay). ”
get ready to be surprised again.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
“Swades and CDI itself are good enough examples and quite easily are over and above anything that Akshay has n(ever) done!”
another opinion which i find unreasonalble as CDI was a hit and it is more important for that reason…and certainly a cut above Akshay’s film so far…but again it is my opinion and may not be the same of numerous others.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
“But yes, till last year, he’s (Hrithik) only been a rich man’s Akshay Kumar with his mass hits.”
again a personal opinion given in a generalised format..which in no way undermines Hrithik’s popularity which was soaring above Aamir last year.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 4 March 2008:
well.. don’t wanna go into a debate done a million times over here.. but would like to point out a few things..
SrK’s film in the 90’s were in no way subpar.. I mean.. what are you guys comparing them to? DDLJ, Baazigar, Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa, Dil Se, Darr, KKHH, Yes Boss, RBGM… how badly do they fare compare to the list of Salman, Aamir, Govinda or Sunny starrers?
I mean Aamir has a JJWS, an AAA and maybe a Rangeela.. and I’ll add a Sarfarosh.. but what else? … bunch of lame-ass Hollywood remakes one after another.
Salman? well he has a Khamoshi, a HDDCS, AAA and I’ll even add a HAHK.. but then what else?
And don’t even bother asking about Govinda and Sunny.
And even if you still insist that SrK’s movies were not better than those other stars, they are in now much worse either. It’s not liek SrK was doing Phir hea Heris and Welcome while Aamir was doing Lagaans.
Comment by sandy on 4 March 2008:
“So even if he had 10 hits a year he wouldn’t be able to make up this prestige deficit. I think this leads one to a rather odd conclusion!”
Well, that’s my point. If other actors are getting both things ie commercial and critical success and Akshay alone isn’t, then he’s obviously a few notches lower, inspite of his numerous hits.
I’m not saying all the others are always making sonnets, but Akshay is still into limericks.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 4 March 2008:
also..
Sandy “one has to according understand that it was really Lagaan that brought about a change in the way the industry started looking at its own films. Not too many stars or even directors were quality conscious untill then…”
What was SrK trying in Dil Se then? What was Hey Raam all about? That they didn’t became the hits they were supposed to, is a different matter.. but it’s not like all of a sudden, after Lagaan, the stars start realising they need to do quality films.
Having said that, a DDLJ was the Lagaan of its time.. Even a KKHH got rave reviews from critics across the board.
Actually to be honest, I still think most people prefer a DDLJ over a Lagaan even today…. no matter how fashioable a YRF-bashing might have become.
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 4 March 2008:
also.. add me amongst the people who’d readily take an OSO over TZP .. or a CDI anyday… and I know tonnes of other people like me.
Comment by Qalandar on 4 March 2008:
SRK doesn’t get credit for Dil Se or Hey Ram the way Aamir does for Lagaan: those are Mani Rathnam and Kamal films first and foremost. i.e., one can get credit for a good performance, but NOT for the way the film has shaped up. Whereas Aamir will get credit for the way Lagaan shaped up (but not for the way Rang De Basanti shaped up; he will also get credit/blame for Mangal Pandey); just as SRK will get credit/blame for the way Om Shanti Om, Chalte Chalte, Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani shaped up, in a way he cannot for Veer-Zaara. With Hey Ram, he did a guest role in a film directed by one of India’s most famous actors — he didn’t make that film a quality film, nor was he in the slightest bit responsible.
Comment by sandy on 4 March 2008:
Street: I think Lagaan has Oscar glory written all over it, you can’t wish that away, can you? It’s an internationally recogonised film. DDLJ is popular no doubt, maybe more than Lagaan but the latter is quite indisputably over and above just about every other film of its times in terms of sheer pretige and class!
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 4 March 2008:
satyam “….Similarly the question is whether a Hrithik has so far been able to attract the kinds of projects Abhishek has consistently.”
lol.. every director worth his salt.. offers a film a Hrithik first.. It’s Hrithik who turns down movie left and right.. and being ultra-choosy with projects.
and Abhi getting better choices? lol..They gave Abhishek own franchise to Hrithik when he greed to do it.. forget about others.
Comment by Qalandar on 4 March 2008:
PS– I don’t think it can be doubted that SRK’s films were among the most prestigious 1995-2001. They were.
Equally, I don’t see why Akshay’s “genre” should be run down: first people said his grosses/initials aren’t big enough; when they became very big, now it’s the “genre.” Listen, given that Bollywood isn’t rewarding high art in any event, how can one look down on popular film x (Welcome) and rave about popular film y (Om Shanti Om)?
PPS– Khakee stands out in Akshay’s career, a meaningful film within the commercial context, and a moving role too, with imo his best comedy as well. Sandy: maybe the Kukunoor film is a rip off, but that puts him on the same terrain as Om Shanti Om and Ghajini, no?
Comment by Street Pharmacist on 4 March 2008:
Qalandar.. I never suggested that SrK should get credit for teh way those films shaped up.. we are talking of stars making choices on films they do. And I disagree with the notion that Stars started looking at quality films only post-Lagaan… and the Dil Se and Hey Raams are examples of that.
Sandy.. To put it bluntly. I think DDLJ is simply a better film than Lagaan. And there are many more out therw ho’d say the same than the contrary.
Comment by sandy on 4 March 2008:
” Listen, given that Bollywood isn’t rewarding high art in any event, how can one look down on popular film x (Welcome) and rave about popular film y (Om Shanti Om)?”
Nobody’s raving about OSO, Q. And if Akshay is such a big star, why can’t he just prove himself with a critical hit. Hrithik had credit taken away from him since all his films until Dhoom 2, were all in-house films. Every actor has to fight these limitations…
Comment by Ravi on 4 March 2008:
To use your words SP, what the fuk was SRK doing in Hey Ram that was an inconsequential role in not that great a film and this was a Kamal film and no one else’s like Q bhai said.
Comment by sandy on 4 March 2008:
“Sandy.. To put it bluntly. I think DDLJ is simply a better film than Lagaan. And there are many more out therw ho’d say the same than the contrary.”
Well, the Oscars didn’t think so.
Comment by Nitesh on 4 March 2008:
“And even if you still insist that SrK’s movies were not better than those other stars, they are in now much worse either. It’s not liek SrK was doing Phir hea Heris and Welcome while Aamir was doing Lagaans.”
SP…I hope you have not compared…do you know that SRK’s Yes Boss was also a remake like Heyy babyy?
ofcourse you will like yess boss more…
for me i can say Heyy babyy was far better than chalte chalte or Yes Boss….
Bhool Bhulaiyaa…it was better than Don…
but let’s not compare films like this or denegrate good films…
Note-I liked Don and Yes Boss…my point is take this at the face value instead of thrusting your choice. same goes for sandy as well.
Comment by sandy on 4 March 2008:
Oh I completely forgot, Aamir did an Earth 1947, which was as arty as it could get for its times!
Comment by Qalandar on 4 March 2008:
Sandy: Maybe Akshay will. His trajectory is on a marjed upswing, and he is today where he wasn’t two years ago. So let’s see if he gets a critically acclaimed hit. Maybe he won’t — but he is a huge star without any critical acclaim, just as SRK was always a huge star even when people used to say he can’t act very well, etc. Rajendra Kumar